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MMCd New Features

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#1 · (Edited)
MMCd Logger New Features and Sensors Archive Latest Information

16-4-05 Posted V1.8g (see below)

Starting this thread to review MMCd bugs and discuss possible new features. I would also like to see if there are other 3SI members interested in doing SW development. (Dev environment is free and takes less than an hour to set up.)

My goal is to periodically summarize feedback / posts on this page.

NEW SOFTWARE FEATURES
1. Auto Logging on Event (cbatters - done)
2. Peak - Hold (cbatters - done)
3. Upload / Convert to CSV (Shawn ????)
4. Address data scaling issues in log files
5. Big Number Mode (TurboBob?)
6. Graphical Gages
7. User Scaling/Config for Custom Inputs
8. User configuration for graph scaling (colors/scaling/offset)
9. User config for all sensors (colors/scaling)
10. User defined log rates / prelog / postlog
11. User defined graphical display time resolution
12. User defined alarm tones
13. Graphical alarm alert

Other suggestions...

HSLogger Project
Interface for adding additional inputs to the MMCd logger. New inputs include:

o Boost (x1) (Using either 2.5 or 3.0 MAP sensor)
o Wideband O2 (x1)
o Oil Pressure (x1)
o Fuel Pressure (x1)
o Intake Manifold Air Temp (x1)
o 0-15V input (x1) (Fuel pump voltage)

o EGT (x1)

o Other
o Vehicle speed (1) and derived calculations
- MPG
- 0-60 timing
- AWD HP

Models / Pricing
Planning to offer three different models of the HSLogger.

HSLogger Base - Fixes baud rate / RS232 level issues to allow compatibility with ALL Palm devices and includes Speed/Odometer input for performance / MPG calculations. You can also log boost with the unused EGRT input. (~$100)

HSLogger Exp - All of the Base unit features plus six 0-5V inputs (Pressure/Boost/Wideband O2 etc from existing sensors/gages - any 0-5V signal) (~$175)

HSLogger Deluxe - All of the Exp unit features plus higher resolution for low level inputs with signal conditioning for direct connection to sensors. Deluxe version has an "analog front end" that provides amplification, filtering, sensor excitation for direct connection to EGT Thermocouples, oil/fuel pressure senders, etc. (~$250)

I believe the Base unit is is competitively priced based on quality passive cables for $75 from Mirage or $150 for PocketLogger SW + Cable. (In my not so humble opinion, MMCd now runs circles around the PocketLogger SW.)

LINKS
Dmitry's Site http://mmcd.meditprofi.ru/
Protocol Info http://www.syndicate.evilsoft.org/projects/DSMDatalogger/Datalogger_Protocol.html
Boost Logging http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=202062&highlight=mmcd
Intake Temp Thread http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=217333&page=1&pp=10
Intake Air Temp Research http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=98661&highlight=plenum+temperature
Horsepower Calculation http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter/calculators/rollinghorsepower.htm
Boost Controller Thread http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=222166
Injector Cleaning Service http://cruzinperformance.com
BlackStone Oil Testing http://www.blackstone-labs.com
Intake Leak Testing http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=200417
Inline Spark Tester http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2433324&postcount=25
Rolling Resistance http://www.3si.org/forum/showpost.php?p=3137280&postcount=203
O2 Sensor Wiring / Test http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?p=712579&highlight=sensor+wiring+green+yellow#post712579
Air Filter Restriction / MPG - http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=294215&highlight=dirty+air+filter
Data Loggin FAQ - http://www.vfaq.com/TMO/
PocketLogger FAQ - http://www.hywell.org/plhelp/data.html
Online Manual - http://www.ecanfix.com/users/manualcd/gift/3s/



LATEST VERSIONS
MMCd V1.8g - http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49809
MMcd V1.6n - http://www.3si.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=39998
MMCd Tools (SPoulson) http://mmcdtools.sourceforge.net/
MMCd Tools - Bugfix (.2c) http://lancache.com/images/MMCdTools-0.2c.exe

SENSORS
EGT Probes - http://www.teamrip.com/accessories.html
K Tc Probes - http://www.thermoworks.com/products/probe/tc_wire.html
Easy Fuel Pressure Install- http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=213356&highlight=easy+fuel
VDO Pressure Senders - http://www.continentalimports.com/vdo_send_press.html
Fuel Pressure Sender - http://www.dakotadigital.com/Detail.cfm/-/Category=106/PartNumber=SEN-10-2/product.htm

DEVELOPMENT LINKS
PRC Setup for Windows - http://prc-tools.sourceforge.net/install/cygwin.html
Palm SDK for PRC - http://spp.palmos.com/iws/logon.do?...os-sdk-5.0r3-1.tar.gz&back=dl_sdks/sdk50.html
Handspring SDK -
Pilot Hack http://www.massena.com/darrin/pilot/PilotHackTutorial.htm
Palm Simulator - http://www.cs.trinity.edu/ftp/pub/w2k-software/Palm/Simulator/Palm_OS_5_Simulator_Rel.zip
Palm Simulator (PalmOS Site) - http://www.palmos.com/dev/tools/simulator/
Palm Emulator (PalmOS Site) - http://www.palmos.com/dev/tools/emulator/

FAQ - Tuning Information
MMCd Info - http://mmcdlogger.sourceforge.net/#Features
MMCd Tips - Remember to click on the "i" in the config dialogs for more info
TMO Faq - http://www.vfaq.com/TMO/Tuning-Tips.htm
PLogger Faq - http://www.pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=params&type=dsm


Q1 - What do the letters mean in FLAG0 and FLAG2

Flag 02 status bits
A - Air conditioning relay
F - Fuel pump relay
B - Boost related ???

Flag 00 status bits
T - TDC sensor
S - Power Steering Pressure SW
A - AC switch
N - Neutral
I - Idle switch

Q2 - How do I view MMCd logs on a PC?

MMCd has built in support to upload logs using the Palms archive file capability by simply flagging the log files in MMCd. Files will automatically get uploaded to Palm User - Archive directory on the PC the next time you hotsync.

Simple solution for reviewing logs is to download the PalmSimulator which allows you to run MMCd on the PC. (Just drag MMCd program and log files to the simulator window.)

The other choice is to download MMCdTools which provides a conduit for xfer of logs files as well as conversion of MMCd log format to CSV.

http://mmcdtools.sourceforge.net/

SUMMARY OF CHANGES

KNOWN ISSUES:
Buttons/checkbox controls cause delays in log sampling rate

INVESTIGATION:
Min/Max button
User defined prelog / postlog times
Consider adding default Autolog triggers
Correct slug for EGRT WBO2 inputs - currently hard coded as MAP
Need to confirm Boost solenoid status display
Need to define/implement new log format (mS resolution / Integer / Long / Char )
Scaling for AFR input - Changed in 1.6N
Old 0-5V = 10.0 - 20.0 AFR
New 0-5V = 8.0 - 22.0 AFR
Configurable option for 3S versus DSM mode
- Timing
- Other differences?
 
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#52 · (Edited)
spoulson said:
Does anyone want to discuss revamping the MMCd display? Clint and I were talking about redoing the graph display to have well defined ranges (in English, Metric, or Raw) and be scalable, so as to 'zoom in or out' of the display. I think having time ticks on the display could be helpful, too.

I also think that MMCd could use more sensor slots. Of course you can only get so many sensors readings from the ECU itself, I think that with some overhauling (including file format) we can get plenty of external sensors into MMCd if we weren't limited to just 32 slots. I say one more page of 8, so 40 slots. In other words, 32 is ok, but I'd like it more robust.

And something perhaps simple... Alerts currently only use the micro-buzzer in the Palm. I am partially deaf to high frequency tones. The only way I can hear any of the alarm tones is when it's up to my ear. How about a visual cue, such as a flashing color of your choice?

Let's hear some feedback...

And Clint, I've registered for a project on SourceForge to put your distribution. It'll take a few days to get approved. We can use that for the official file storage, and possibly new web space. (i.e. http://mmcd.sourceforge.net)

I like the idea of a visual alarm. I was thinking about this last week after I had higher that my usual knock counts while going uphill on day. I have my knock alarm set at 4 i think and I didn't hear it cause I usually drive with my stereo on if I'm not watching the logger. If the screen would have flashed or something i might have noticed it. Is it possible to output a signal to a relay to say turn off you stereo during an alarm?

Also the graphing changes would be great as well.. for example the knock valves i usually see are tiny blips that are hard to see. I was thinking it would be nice to have a page on the display that would display all senors (or most) on the same screen (senors in the graph area as well). Just an option say page 5 or 6 that would show all at once.

If i could only code. :)
 
#54 ·
Steve3kgt said:
I like the idea of a visual alram also...

I've been logging wideband o2 for a few weeks now with version 1.6J and its working great, I'm very eager to learn more about the expansion unit. I want to log boost so bad now!
WidebandO2 - Check out latest test version of MMCd V1.16L - has mS resolution. I was logging with the new HW interface getting 50 updates / second across all of the new sensors (>500 samples / seconds.)

Need to separate logging rate from sampling rate. Just because we "can" sample at 50 HZ doesn't mean everyone will want to be stuck logging at the max rate.

Same issue with graph display - time resolution in graphs should be independant of sampling rate.

I'll add visual alarms and alarm output to the list of requests. I have thought about highlighting/flashing cells that are in alarm but I doubt it will be noticed on a monochrome screen. (Also have to decide how to handle sensors that are in alarm mode but are not currently displayed.) Perhaps an alert dialogue that has a list of alarms???)

Better knock scaling (0-25) is a subset of user defined graph / sensor scaling although I can easily add this in the next test release in the same way I rescaled the O2 sensors.

More sensors... High on my priority list as this is required to support the new HW interface. (Was planning to add another 2 pages of 8 sensors for a total of 48. Same effort as adding 1 page / 8 sensors.)


Clint
 
#56 ·
Steve3kgt said:
Just out of curiousity, what are other MMCd users seeing for warm idle timing advance?
27 deg..
 
#57 ·
Waste Of Time

I spent 3-4 hours last night trying to track down what appeared to be an intermittant delay in logging. (Noticed it when testing pre-log timing.)

What I finally determined is that touching any of the standard Palm controls (Peak, Graph, Reset, Log) will halt scanning for the duration that the control is depressed.

Looking at placing the scanning code in a background timer loop instead of the foreground event loop to make scanning truly independent from UI. (I have done this in the past on PC logging products - not sure what hoops I may have to go through to do this on a Palm.)

Incremental improvement would be to use custom controls instead of the system checkbox/buttons.

Just had to vent my frustration...



Clint
 
#59 ·
Steve3kgt said:
Isn't that ~10 degrees to high? The newest version of the pocketlogger software has a "3/S mode" which, when enabled corrected the timing reading, if I remember correctly.

I don't have my logger handy right now, but when I get home I can compare warm idle pocketlogger timing and MMCd warm idle timing.
i dont know .. lol
very well could be high..

At wot i usually get timing starting at 18 then it moves up to say 22-25
 
#60 ·
ok, you'll all have to excuse me for this one. I have an odd problem with my TMO datalogger, seems that the high fuel trim has never read anything other than 81.25% regardless of mods (from BPU 3 years ago to my current list). I cant seem to get it to change or read anything else, therefore, here I am. Now I dont have a palm pilot, so Im trying to use this thing on emulation, but I have no idea how to work a palm or this software. Is there a users guide? I dont see the way to use MANY of the functions talked about, maybe once its in the car and connected, but for now, CLUELESS! Can anyone help? Im using the palm IIIc emulation with OS 4.0 if that helps. Thanks!

Edit: Im aware that the logging software wont change the fuel trim, I think it might be a glitch in the interface somehow. Im hoping to get diff #'s with a different interface.
 
#61 ·
twintrbo said:
ok, you'll all have to excuse me for this one. I have an odd problem with my TMO datalogger, seems that the high fuel trim has never read anything other than 81.25% regardless of mods (from BPU 3 years ago to my current list). I cant seem to get it to change or read anything else, therefore, here I am. Now I dont have a palm pilot, so Im trying to use this thing on emulation, but I have no idea how to work a palm or this software. Is there a users guide? I dont see the way to use MANY of the functions talked about, maybe once its in the car and connected, but for now, CLUELESS! Can anyone help? Im using the palm IIIc emulation with OS 4.0 if that helps. Thanks!

Edit: Im aware that the logging software wont change the fuel trim, I think it might be a glitch in the interface somehow. Im hoping to get diff #'s with a different interface.

#1 - I have used TMO and have never seen any problems with high trim data. (You will get the same reading on a Palm running MMCd or Pocketlogger - you apparently have lots of fuel during high load closed loop operation.)

#2 - If you have intro questions about using Palm devices, try getting a book at your local library

#3 - Earlier versions of MMCd could not be used without the ECU. I have a new version on the way that allows stand alone simulation.

#4 - We don't have to excuse you for an obvious hijack - why not start a fresh thread


Clint
 
#62 ·
cbatters said:
#1 - I have used TMO and have never seen any problems with high trim data. (You will get the same reading on a Palm running MMCd or Pocketlogger - you apparently have lots of fuel during high load closed loop operation.)

#2 - If you have intro questions about using Palm devices, try getting a book at your local library

#3 - Earlier versions of MMCd could not be used without the ECU. I have a new version on the way that allows stand alone simulation.

#4 - We don't have to excuse you for an obvious hijack - why not start a fresh thread


Clint
I wouldn't consider it a hijack, but if you insist, could people answer me here instead :rolleyes:

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?p=2173671#post2173671

I really appreciate the work you guys are putting into this software, but honestly, its easier to answer a simple question than to put someone down for going slightly off topic.

1. I cant see how the high trim has always been exactly 81.25% on a stock fuel and ECU setup regardless of driving style or weather, and the same 81.25% with 550 injectors and a walbro pump. Even if its leaned out enough that the car wont run.
2. Im not an idiot, just wondering if there is some hidden menu function Im not aware of. Palm for dummies is not needed thank you.
3. So you mean it wont work unless there is a link? Ah!!!!
4. As you wish, however, I got an answer much faster asking the developers of the software, now didn't i? :) Thanks for everything guys, you rock!
 
#63 ·
twintrbo said:
I wouldn't consider it a hijack, but if you insist, could people answer me here instead :rolleyes:

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?p=2173671#post2173671

I really appreciate the work you guys are putting into this software, but honestly, its easier to answer a simple question than to put someone down for going slightly off topic.

1. I cant see how the high trim has always been exactly 81.25% on a stock fuel and ECU setup regardless of driving style or weather, and the same 81.25% with 550 injectors and a walbro pump. Even if its leaned out enough that the car wont run.
2. Im not an idiot, just wondering if there is some hidden menu function Im not aware of. Palm for dummies is not needed thank you.
3. So you mean it wont work unless there is a link? Ah!!!!
4. As you wish, however, I got an answer much faster asking the developers of the software, now didn't i? :) Thanks for everything guys, you rock!
A. I did answer your TMO question....

B. This is supposed to be a thread regarding New MMCd Features

C. Not calling you an idiot - just suggesting a source of general Palm info because you said you had no experience with Palms. (Palm for Dummies book is pretty good and would help you understand how to load/run programs on the simulator - I did a quick read through it when I first started working on MMCd - my first hands on experience with Palm.)

d. Your #4 wisecrack (with/without the smiley face) pretty much guarantees that you won't get a response from me in the future



Clint
 
#64 ·
Sony CLIE SJ33 Compatibility

After wrestling with this for a number of hours (and several versions of hardware interfaces that should have worked) I put a scope on it and determined that this is not a hardware signal level issues.

Rather, when MMCd configures baud rate to 1920 or 1953 baud, the Sony communicates at 9600 BAUD which is why the ECU either never responds or appears to respond with garbage data.

The good news is that the new MMCd expansion interface works reliably with the Sony operating at 56k baud - a solution for hardware compatibility and more sensor inputs.

Sony Clie @56K baud -> MMCd Expansion -> ECU @1953 Baud



Clint
 
#65 ·
Alarm Alert

Appreciate feedback before coding -

What do you guys think about automatically switching to big number display (perhaps in red / reverse) when any sensor goes into alarm? (Big number display would display Min/Max/Current.)



Clint
 
#66 ·
Hi,

sorry if ths may sound stupid or smth, but this hardware expansion interface is going to be comercial product or could i get some schematics to make and try it out (just like mmcd logger cable)? Anyway the possibility to add more custom sensors sounds realy great.

Beer.
 
#67 ·
Beer said:
Hi,

sorry if ths may sound stupid or smth, but this hardware expansion interface is going to be comercial product or could i get some schematics to make and try it out (just like mmcd logger cable)? Anyway the possibility to add more custom sensors sounds realy great.

Beer.
The core of the expansion interface is a custom programmed microcontroller which takes care of the A/D conversion and the communciations translation. Not sure yet whether I am going to offer kits in addition to assmbled units.

I am thinking about three versions:

1. CommBridge - Solves baud rate / signal level issues so you can use any Palm device.

2. Base - CommBridge + 6 high level 0-5V inputs (from existing gages / sensors)

3. Deluxe - Base + signal conditoning / excitation for pressure senders and Tc inputs. (Saves ~$100 per signal.)


Clint
 
#68 ·
Hey guys,
I had some free time to compare logs on the pocketlogger and MMCd software and I did find a difference in the timing readings. In the pocket logger software I looked at a log of warm idle timing while in 3/S mode and saw values between 15 - 18 degrees. I was able to change out of 3/S mode and then look at the same log again... warm idle timing values were now at 25 - 28 degrees. I am also seeing ~27 degrees of timing at warm idle with the MMCd software. I'm not sure what the 3/S mode does differently in regards to timing calculation, but I have verified that timing values on the MMCd correspond to the pockelogger values when *not* in 3/S mode.

I don't know if the timing value is always ~10 degrees lower, or if somehow as the RPM's increase timing values are different in a non linear fashion.

On a side note, I have a question about the communication speeds. I have a sony clie PEG-t615C and I am only able to log at 1920bps and 1953bps. What is the advantage of the higher speeds, higher sampling rate? How come I can not log at the higher communications speeds? I'm using the cable I got with my pocketlogger if that makes a difference.

As far as visual alarms, perhaps when an alarm goes off the upper bar of the screen, where the 1,2,3,4 and H are listed along with "MMCd log x of y", could change to a flashing red bar, then the corresponding alarm value could go automaticly into big number mode.

I'm still confused about how the MMCd expansion is going to work can you elaborate on it Clint?

*edit*
I just saw the above post regarding the MMCd expansion... interesting... what are tc inputs? =)

Also, where can I find the instructions on how to make the auto on logging cable?
 
#69 ·
Steve3kgt said:
Hey guys,
I had some free time to compare logs on the pocketlogger and MMCd software and I did find a difference in the timing readings. In the pocket logger software I looked at a log of warm idle timing while in 3/S mode and saw values between 15 - 18 degrees. I was able to change out of 3/S mode and then look at the same log again... warm idle timing values were now at 25 - 28 degrees. I am also seeing ~27 degrees of timing at warm idle with the MMCd software. I'm not sure what the 3/S mode does differently in regards to timing calculation, but I have verified that timing values on the MMCd correspond to the pockelogger values when *not* in 3/S mode.

I don't know if the timing value is always ~10 degrees lower, or if somehow as the RPM's increase timing values are different in a non linear fashion.

On a side note, I have a question about the communication speeds. I have a sony clie PEG-t615C and I am only able to log at 1920bps and 1953bps. What is the advantage of the higher speeds, higher sampling rate? How come I can not log at the higher communications speeds? I'm using the cable I got with my pocketlogger if that makes a difference.

As far as visual alarms, perhaps when an alarm goes off the upper bar of the screen, where the 1,2,3,4 and H are listed along with "MMCd log x of y", could change to a flashing red bar, then the corresponding alarm value could go automaticly into big number mode.

I'm still confused about how the MMCd expansion is going to work can you elaborate on it Clint?

*edit*
I just saw the above post regarding the MMCd expansion... interesting... what are tc inputs? =)

Also, where can I find the instructions on how to make the auto on logging cable?
TIMING
Sounds like we need to get an explanation of "3/S" mode from Digital Turning. Whenever possible, I am trying to get MMCd numbers to agree with other loggers (ISC counts / fuel trims / air etc.)

ALARM
Thanks for your suggestions - I wil take a shot at implementing it this weekend.

BAUD RATE
First gen ECU only communcate at 1920/1953 baud. Setting the baud rate higher will not work. (The low baud rate is why the maximum sampling rate is ~100 readings per second divided by the number of active channels.) The non-standard baud rate is also why MMCd and Pocketlogger do not work on the newer palm devices which only support standard baud rates.

EXPANSION
Expansion interface sits betweeen Palm and ECU. Palm communciates with expansion at 56K baud. Expansion communicates with ECU at 1953. The expansion scans all of the new analog inputs >1000 times / second. Design goal is to allow scanning / logging of all new input channels at 100 samples / second interleaved with existing ECU sensors that are scanned in the background.

Tc INPUTS
Tc = Thermocouples for EGT. You can get good type K thermocouples foir under $50. The rest of the cost is signal conditioning and the meter.

AUTO-ON LOGGING CABLE
I'll see if I can locate the original Auto-On schematic post.



Clint
 
#70 ·
3S mode in pocket logger is just 10 degrees less than DSM mode.

Bob
 
#71 ·
#72 ·
Re: Alarm Alert

cbatters said:
Appreciate feedback before coding -

What do you guys think about automatically switching to big number display (perhaps in red / reverse) when any sensor goes into alarm? (Big number display would display Min/Max/Current.)



Clint
I like everything so far. The peak is nice. If we could get a 4 parameter big number mode that would be cool too, but I'm still happy either way. (I'm not doing any coding so I can't complain =) ). Thanks Clint
 
#73 ·
TurboBob said:
3S mode in pocket logger is just 10 degrees less than DSM mode.

Bob
Cool, why is that though? is it a 4 vs 6 cylinder thing, or is it due to a difference in the cranks.

If I could get that dev enviornment setup I would code in a DSM or 3/S mode option... Is timing the only difference between DSM and 3/S mode on the pocketlogger?
 
#74 ·
Its the only scaling difference that I have found.


Bob
 
#75 ·
I was curious to see what pocketlogger did in the "3S mode" for timing and discovered they subtract 12 consistently. I verified this theory on several of my logs, and it was consistent. So there you have it, the mystery is now solved.

For kicks, I compared my talon datalogs and compared the "new" stealth timing. In some cases, it was dead on. At idle, our cars run a few degrees higher than the talon. I'm not sure how pocketlogger folks came up with the number 12, but the new timing numbers match extremely close to the talon.

The pic that cbatters posted is labeled as autodiag.jpg in my archives. Who knows maybe that's the extra circuitry that was added for auto log.

Here's the pic that shriver posted a while back.
<img src="http://home.cogeco.ca/~stealthguy/datalogger/myschematic.jpg" />

Here's another pic in my archive.
<img src="http://home.cogeco.ca/~stealthguy/datalogger/dsm_aldl_interface.gif" />

And finally the last pic in my folder.
<img src="http://home.cogeco.ca/~stealthguy/datalogger/dataloggershcematic.jpg" />
 
#76 ·
antero said:
I was curious to see what pocketlogger did in the "3S mode" for timing and discovered they subtract 12 consistently. I verified this theory on several of my logs, and it was consistent. So there you have it, the mystery is now solved.

For kicks, I compared my talon datalogs and compared the "new" stealth timing. In some cases, it was dead on. At idle, our cars run a few degrees higher than the talon. I'm not sure how pocketlogger folks came up with the number 12, but the new timing numbers match extremely close to the talon.

The pic that cbatters posted is labeled as autodiag.jpg in my archives. Who knows maybe that's the extra circuitry that was added for auto log.
Easy enough to add the 3S setting but would like to confirm what the correction is for before adding it. (Perhaps the difference between ECU timing versus ECU + static engine timing.)

If you dredge throught the old logs, you would find that I developed AUTODIAG and worked with Shiver to come up with a reliable passive cable design. I offered the AUTODIAG design to Digital Tuning as a swap for a cable/SW but they said nobody cared about the ABS being disabled. I respectfully disagree and think the 3SI croud has been well served by the cables built by Shiver.


Clint
 
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