THE E-Manage Thread

[grtn316]

Ok so, there is no way to figure out my actual timing other than looking at my log and map and making calculations from there. I tho I saw a formula somewhere that I could use based off of logged information.

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

I'd add fuel before pull timing.

Is this because when you decrease timing it will lean out the a/f ratio? I thought it just made the car slower?

[DJAuggie]

Originally Posted by grtn316

Is this because when you decrease timing it will lean out the a/f ratio? I thought it just made the car slower?

It is because I believe that you will lose more power by pulling timing to get rid of knock then to add fuel and run a richer AFR.

[Hannibalzero]

Originally Posted by grtn316

Ok so, there is no way to figure out my actual timing other than looking at my log and map and making calculations from there. I tho I saw a formula somewhere that I could use based off of logged information.

Just datalog to get the degree of advance. That's all you really need. Advance or retard the timing as needed after you have figured out your fuel.

Originally Posted by grtn316

Is this because when you decrease timing it will lean out the a/f ratio? I thought it just made the car slower?

No. Decreasing the timing will allow the cylinders too cool down more between sparks.


Before worrying about timing, make sure you get your A/F ratio down first.

[DJAuggie]

If you have OBDI or hybrid dataloggers, you should not be asking these questions.

[grtn316]

Originally Posted by DJAuggie

If you have OBDI or hybrid dataloggers, you should not be asking these questions.

haha I know, I feel dumb. I want to make sure I understand what I am doing before I do it. Trial and error is not the best way to learn how to tune if I plan on driving my car ever again.

I have a datalogger but the thing is for example I have -10 pulled on emanage and the datalogger shows the stock timing at 26 degrees. But I know this cannot be correct because I just pulled out -10. So, I was/am looking for a way to figure out what my timing actual would be other than comparing the map to the log and doing a bunch of calcuations.

[grtn316]

Originally Posted by Hannibalzero

Just datalog to get the degree of advance. That's all you really need. Advance or retard the timing as needed after you have figured out your fuel.




No. Decreasing the timing will allow the cylinders too cool down more between sparks.


Before worrying about timing, make sure you get your A/F ratio down first.

Ok, so timing is actually adjusted to the highest degree that shows no knock? For example If my timing was 32 degrees on pump gas(unlikely but just for example) and I had no signs of knock this would be ok? I thought the theory was to stay under 30 degrees to avoid jumping a tooth.

[DJAuggie]

You need to take your datalog and apply your correction to it. The ECU assigns the timing and then your adjusting it. It's a bitch.

[Hannibalzero]

Originally Posted by grtn316

Ok, so timing is actually adjusted to the highest degree that shows no knock? For example If my timing was 32 degrees on pump gas(unlikely but just for example) and I had no signs of knock this would be ok? I thought the theory was to stay under 30 degrees to avoid jumping a tooth.

What DJ said.

And if your timing actually was into the mid- to high- 30s at high RPMs, then that's a very good sign. Why you ask? Because its time to raise the boost.

Also, I don't recall hearing about anyone jumping teeth because of timing advance. Usually, people jump teeth because A) they screwed up their T-belt install, B) their timing belt had been coated in oil or soiled at some point, or C) the most likely: some jackass misshifts. Those aren't the only ways to jump time, but they seem to be the most common.

[grtn316]

Originally Posted by Hannibalzero

What DJ said.

And if your timing actually was into the mid- to high- 30s at high RPMs, then that's a very good sign. Why you ask? Because its time to raise the boost.

Also, I don't recall hearing about anyone jumping teeth because of timing advance. Usually, people jump teeth because A) they screwed up their T-belt install, B) their timing belt had been coated in oil or soiled at some point, or C) the most likely: some jackass misshifts. Those aren't the only ways to jump time, but they seem to be the most common.

thinking out loud...

Ok, that makes sense because its in the 30s during low rpms and no boost. So, 25-27 degress on pump gas must be a good place for the most power with no knock.

I guess that was just my misconception of timing and why I have been so afraid of having it to high. Does it jump teeth during a misshift because the timing jumps really quick?

This is all starting to come together now. at WOT...I need to tune for 11.5 - 12 with no knock. Then advance timing to find the sweetspot with no knock. Turn up the boost .7 psi at a time. The A/F ratio should not change. Verify, then adjust timing. (I will probably advance it a little since higher boost will lower the timing? NOT SURE)

Wait...this sounds like I could just keep turning up the boost on pump gas...unless turning up the boost actually advances the timing which would mean I have to pull timing until I hit the maps limit. As long as I can keep the a/f 11.5-12 with no knock and 25-27 degrees of timing i can turn up the boost and should expect more power?

[DJAuggie]

This is why you go to the dyno. To see when your power stops dropping off from running too much boost or running out of efficiency or knock or running too much timing.

Also, HIGH 11.X on pump is probably not a good idea.

For the street, get your AFR in the 11.0-11.5 and then slowly increase timing. If you get knock, decide at that one rpm point to add fuel or pull timing and move on.