Camera Selection

[AudibleSilence]

Originally Posted by leet

not really, pretty much the only lens worth a damn below $300 is the 50 1.8

http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/overview

Verdict: Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

There were a few moments when I considered not to publish the results due to "political correctness" because to date it was a quite absurd thought that such a cheap, or better "affordable", lens can perform this good and I'm sure that some will not believe the findings even though they're supported by the published field images. Anyway, the resolution capabilities of the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS is nothing short of amazing. This is also surprising regarding the rather small changes in the optical design compared to the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II. Still - the center resolution is excellent throughout the range even at wide-open aperture. Unlike most dedicated APS-C standard zoom lenses it is capable to keep a very good level even at the extreme corners of the image field. Its resolution characteristic is similar to the (much higher priced) EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 USM IS at comparable aperture settings, quite a bit better than the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 USM IS and naturally vastly improved over its non-IS predecessor! Field curvature is not an issue. So is it a perfect lens then ? No, naturally not. It has its weaknesses - notably strong barrel distortions at 18mm and very high vignetting at 18mm @ f/3.5. Chromatic aberrations are well controlled at the extreme ends of the zoom range but quite pronounced around 28mm. In the field the lens struggles in contra light situations whereas the bokeh (out-of-focus blur) is pretty good within the limits of its depth-of-field capabilities. All-in-all the optical aspects are impressive and that's not only regarding the low price tag. The image stabilizer is quite efficient with a real world "gain" equivalent to about 3 f-stops. On the mechanical side things aren't so rosy. Canon changed the cosmetics of the lens and it certainly "looks" better now but the actual implementation has only been marginally improved compared to the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II. The plastic quality (down to the lens mount) spoils subjective quality perception quite a bit. The inner lens tube does still wobble significantly and accurate manual focusing remains next to impossible. However, the AF speed and accuracy is very decent and that's probably good enough for most users anyway. The Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS is certainly a value king, priced below 200€/US$, which is a good match for the resolution potential of the current generation of Canon's APS-C DSLRs.

Shit like this confuses me as a mid-level novice. I have experienced users telling me it's crap..but lab tests proving it is decent for the money. Tom are you saying that once I get to your level things like this just won't cut it? Where are the limits speaking from your experience?

[Macky]

Originally Posted by 97mits3kgtSOHC

yea but wouldnt u be more nervous buying used cameras? i know i would...since i dont know a whole lot about them how would i know if something isnt broken until down the line when i try and use that feature

so buy a used body? and new lens?

my first camera (the olympus) was used. didnt have a problem. dunno about a DSLR though.

[leet]

Originally Posted by 97mits3kgtSOHC

yea but wouldnt u be more nervous buying used cameras? i know i would...since i dont know a whole lot about them how would i know if something isnt broken until down the line when i try and use that feature

so buy a used body? and new lens?

I've bought plenty of used equipment, it's the same as when you buy a used car or used car parts, just make sure you know what you're getting. The biggest issue with a body is shutter actuations, the 20D is rated to about 100,000 clicks, so unless it was used professionally you shouldn't have a problem

also it should be obvious from pictures if something has been abused to the point of not working

I'd get used body and lens, saving money ftw

[leet]

Originally Posted by AudibleSilence

http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/overview



Shit like this confuses me as a mid-level novice. I have experienced users telling me it's crap..but lab tests proving it is decent for the money. Tom are you saying that once I get to your level things like this just won't cut it? Where are the limits speaking from your experience?

well first of all it's all plastic, which is a personal thing but that bugs me, the build quality just isn't there and the overall feel is cheap and meh (same with an XT/XTi vs. xxD)

second, it's a rotating front element for focusing so kiss easily using a polarizer goodbye, which a good CPL should be almost mandatory for taking car pics

thirdly it's 3.5-5.6, so it's not very fast either

aaand yeah that's about it

trust me once you've used some higher end bodies and glass you won't settle for anything less

[97mits3kgtSOHC]

^k....look for a person who had it for a short period of time

where can i shop for used ones? ebay?

[leet]

Originally Posted by 97mits3kgtSOHC

^k....look for a person who had it for a short period of time

where can i shop for used ones? ebay?

www.photography-on-the.net

they pop up quite often in the for sale section

[AudibleSilence]

Originally Posted by leet

oh and if you think $300+ for lenses is "bank" you're in the wrong hobby

My next two lenses:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._USM_Lens.html
(for ECG, NEDD, and NG)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...8L_IS_USM.html
(for X-mas)

I stopped modding my VR4 for this "hobby" Tom. I am going to school for it in the fall. Trust me money is not the issue right now. I just don't believe in running the NYC marathon before I learn how to crawl.

[leet]

Originally Posted by AudibleSilence

My next two lenses:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._USM_Lens.html
(for ECG, NEDD, and NG)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...8L_IS_USM.html
(for X-mas)

I stopped modding my VR4 for this "hobby" Tom. I am going to school for it in the fall. Trust me money is not the issue right now. I just don't believe in running the NYC marathon before I learn how to crawl.

yes, but I'm not saying to run out and buy a $1500 L lens, I'm saying to spend maybe $100-200 more and get a much better setup that he won't be feeling the itch to upgrade right away once he sees his pictures compared to something taken with better glass

basically I'm trying to help him not make the mistakes I did, which is wasting money on crappy glass only to upgrade it later on down the road

buy smart, buy once


besides a camera is only as good as the person holding it

[AudibleSilence]

Originally Posted by leet

yes, but I'm not saying to run out and buy a $1500 L lens, I'm saying to spend maybe $100-200 more and get a much better setup that he won't be feeling the itch to upgrade right away once he sees his pictures compared to something taken with better glass

basically I'm trying to help him not make the mistakes I did, which is wasting money on crappy glass only to upgrade it later on down the road

buy smart, buy once


besides a camera is only as good as the person holding it

We're arguing the same point, from different POV's (novice vs. old timer). I'm buying those lenses (L glass) because they are the best I can get for my style and range of shooting. They are all I will probably have to buy unless I change my style. A camera is indeed only as good as the photographer, hence why I am trying to learn the basics, learn post production, etc before I blow my wad and start carrying around a 3k worth of glass in my satchel.

Point of fact: One of the main reasons that I like using these "starter" lenses for daily pics is because they get beat to shit traveling with me on the subway. People bang into me, doors hit me/my bag, etc. When I picked up my 50mm the guy tells me, "be careful..these are very very fragile... You'll probably break it though commuting."

I suppose you are right though Tom. What works for me may not work for you and Sean.. He should get one or two great lenses to start and call it a day. I'm just all about the bang for the buck.

[leet]

don't get me wrong, I'm all about bang for your buck too, it's just with the 20D/17-50 combo you get a *LOT* more bang for only a little more buck

here is a good analogy

compare it to getting 13g's vs. 15g's, the 15g is a MUCH more capable turbo, but it only costs a couple hundred more then the 13g

and if you get the 13g's it will just give you a taste of what upgraded turbos can do, and only leave you wanting more and wishing you would have spent that little bit extra to get the 15g's