Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

mynamiseli · 04-21-2008, 10:38 PM

I'm in the process of freshening a recently purchased '92 TT.. Upon splitting the trans and checking everything I noticed wear on 3rd gear. Well.. I've already ordered a replacement synchro for 3rd as it is obviously needed, but am debating on the gear. I was told the rough edges could be lightly filed and just left as is, but honestly I'm not sure. What do you guys think?

Here are some shots:

Thanks in advance.

mynamiseli · 04-22-2008, 07:39 AM

Anyone?

JackM · 04-22-2008, 08:57 AM

Those are just the engagement teeth and will only affect how the tranny feels when the slider happens to butt up against the middle of the tooth that needs to be sharp. If it butts up to the tooth and is unable to 'slip' the slider past, due to missing a sharp edge, you will miss that gear. I would say it is up to you. It looks to me like once every 10th time you try to shift quickly into 3rd you might have an issue, but otherwise it will be okay. Normal driving you wouldn't feel much of a difference at all IMO. I would highly recommend NOT filing them down. If you do that and take too much off you will take away enough of the teeth to give the slider some difficulty in staying engaged to the gear. IOW, it can start popping out of gear. I would either leave it alone or replace the gear with a new one.

Also, if the gear looks that bad, in most cases the slider is worse and considering the slider is doing 2 jobs (operating the synchro ring and engaging the gear) replacing the slider is far more important and you should look into at least do that.

Also, look at the leading and trailing edges of your synchro ring teeth. They look to be worn and compressed a little. This will cause grinding at high RPM as the slider will slip away from the ring too soon (before the gear is synchronized) under high load/stress conditions. I would replace the ring too.

Jack

mynamiseli · 04-22-2008, 10:33 AM

JackM- EXACTLY what I needed, I really appreciate it. As stated I've already ordered a replacement 3rd gear synchro, but now will definately take into consideration the slider as I hadn't before. When I get it fully torn down I will have a better idea of what needs to be done.

Thanks again.

Colt45_GTO · 04-22-2008, 11:39 AM

dude buy steel rings those brass ones are shit seriously! maybe the steel cost a buck or 2 more but they will outlast those fancy brass lumps of crap all day long. and i would garentee its those thats the trouble and not the gear.

spin the free gear and push the syncro towards it. if the gear goes tight its still working if it makes no odds its the ring. what they do is slow the gear down so it engages cleanly. if it doesn't slow it will grind like hell.

mynamiseli · 04-22-2008, 12:41 PM

I'm fairly sure the replacement I ordered from 3SX isn't brass, as that's not what was shown in their product description.

Colt45_GTO · 04-22-2008, 01:48 PM

then i'm sure they are sending good quality out to you. the brass ones simply wear away and expand. if you notice on the inside they have a friction plate which doesn't seem worn out so i'm guessing the external wears and the whole lot expands? i'm certainly no expert but comon sense tells me this

JackM · 04-22-2008, 08:36 PM

I don't know what you are talking about. Brass rings work very well, the ones from China do not.

Jack

mynamiseli · 04-22-2008, 09:47 PM

I'm not sure what type I will be getting from 3SX, they were the only vendor who would sell a 3rd synchro by itself. Any input as to what they are selling?

EDIT: Posted by IMPORT POWER: "We {3SX Performance} stock most of the internal parts, and some external parts, for the 5 and 6 spd getrag transmissions. Brand new from Japan."

I'm assuming they aren't Chinese parts if they are coming from Japan. Anyone with 3SX care to chime in?

Colt45_GTO · 04-23-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackM

I don't know what you are talking about. Brass rings work very well, the ones from China do not.

Jack

brass is brass jack regardless of where it comes from. its not as hard wearing as steel. i'm not saying those who use them suck, i'm saying its the part its self that sucks!

and i'm sure that if the steel ones were as easy to sorce as brass, rebuilders like you would prefer the steel too

04-21-2008, 10:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
mynamiseli My name is.. Eli Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Conway, Arkansas Drives: Red '92 TT Trader Rating: (4)	Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside I'm in the process of freshening a recently purchased '92 TT.. Upon splitting the trans and checking everything I noticed wear on 3rd gear. Well.. I've already ordered a replacement synchro for 3rd as it is obviously needed, but am debating on the gear. I was told the rough edges could be lightly filed and just left as is, but honestly I'm not sure. What do you guys think? Here are some shots: Thanks in advance.

04-22-2008, 07:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
mynamiseli My name is.. Eli Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Conway, Arkansas Drives: Red '92 TT Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside Anyone?

04-22-2008, 08:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
JackM jackstransmissions.com Join Date: Jun 2003 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside Those are just the engagement teeth and will only affect how the tranny feels when the slider happens to butt up against the middle of the tooth that needs to be sharp. If it butts up to the tooth and is unable to 'slip' the slider past, due to missing a sharp edge, you will miss that gear. I would say it is up to you. It looks to me like once every 10th time you try to shift quickly into 3rd you might have an issue, but otherwise it will be okay. Normal driving you wouldn't feel much of a difference at all IMO. I would highly recommend NOT filing them down. If you do that and take too much off you will take away enough of the teeth to give the slider some difficulty in staying engaged to the gear. IOW, it can start popping out of gear. I would either leave it alone or replace the gear with a new one. Also, if the gear looks that bad, in most cases the slider is worse and considering the slider is doing 2 jobs (operating the synchro ring and engaging the gear) replacing the slider is far more important and you should look into at least do that. Also, look at the leading and trailing edges of your synchro ring teeth. They look to be worn and compressed a little. This will cause grinding at high RPM as the slider will slip away from the ring too soon (before the gear is synchronized) under high load/stress conditions. I would replace the ring too. Jack __________________ www.jackstransmissions.com EVO VIII, DSM, 3S tranny rebuilding.

04-22-2008, 10:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
mynamiseli My name is.. Eli Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Conway, Arkansas Drives: Red '92 TT Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside JackM- EXACTLY what I needed, I really appreciate it. As stated I've already ordered a replacement 3rd gear synchro, but now will definately take into consideration the slider as I hadn't before. When I get it fully torn down I will have a better idea of what needs to be done. Thanks again.

04-22-2008, 11:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
Colt45_GTO GTONW is good to go Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: manchester uk Drives: Black '91 TT Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside dude buy steel rings those brass ones are shit seriously! maybe the steel cost a buck or 2 more but they will outlast those fancy brass lumps of crap all day long. and i would garentee its those thats the trouble and not the gear. spin the free gear and push the syncro towards it. if the gear goes tight its still working if it makes no odds its the ring. what they do is slow the gear down so it engages cleanly. if it doesn't slow it will grind like hell. __________________ Colt45_GTO Semper Fidelis go register at www.gtonw.co.uk

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04-22-2008, 12:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
mynamiseli My name is.. Eli Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Conway, Arkansas Drives: Red '92 TT Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside I'm fairly sure the replacement I ordered from 3SX isn't brass, as that's not what was shown in their product description.

04-22-2008, 01:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Colt45_GTO GTONW is good to go Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: manchester uk Drives: Black '91 TT Trader Rating: (0)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside then i'm sure they are sending good quality out to you. the brass ones simply wear away and expand. if you notice on the inside they have a friction plate which doesn't seem worn out so i'm guessing the external wears and the whole lot expands? i'm certainly no expert but comon sense tells me this

04-22-2008, 08:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
JackM jackstransmissions.com Join Date: Jun 2003 Trader Rating: (1)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside I don't know what you are talking about. Brass rings work very well, the ones from China do not. Jack

04-22-2008, 09:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
mynamiseli My name is.. Eli Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Conway, Arkansas Drives: Red '92 TT Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Rebuilding trans-Input on 3rd gear? Pics inside I'm not sure what type I will be getting from 3SX, they were the only vendor who would sell a 3rd synchro by itself. Any input as to what they are selling? EDIT: Posted by IMPORT POWER: "We {3SX Performance} stock most of the internal parts, and some external parts, for the 5 and 6 spd getrag transmissions. Brand new from Japan." I'm assuming they aren't Chinese parts if they are coming from Japan. Anyone with 3SX care to chime in?