Output shaft replacement without tranny pull: EASY

[massstealth]

Originally Posted by Bret Brinkmann

The thing about this procedure is that if you forget something, there is a good chance you will mess something up. In three hours the tranny can be on the floor and it would be a lot easier to disassemble. Even on this thread I am still seeing people run into problems and broken parts and it has guide lines. This proceedure is only easy if you do not make any seemingly simple mistakes. Be very careful guys.

If the trans was pulled down, wouldn't the same operation apply. I don't think there no magic "tahdah" procedure when it is out of the car. My own personal experience wanst too bad and after just removing 2 times before, in 1 years time for clutches, just wasn't excited to remove the unit a third time.

If you forget a procedure with the trans on the ground....wouldnt that be more work to install the trans and find out later...then pull it back down. If you have done this particular procedure, its not that unfeasible to be done in the car. Everything is right there once the cover is off.....and this seems to be one of the more difficult duties of the job.

[DoctorDex]

Originally Posted by RickyN29

P.S. Just to double check...I put some spacers all around the case, then put a bolt in where the 12mm bolt was and pound the crap out of it right?

What I found worked best the first time I did it was to put pieces of wood all around it and then pound on the pieces of wood. I'd go in kind of a circular motion, pounding on the wood at the three points (where the tabs are) and then I'd give the shaft a light tap (I threaded a bolt into the end of the shaft so I wouldn't damage the shaft). This worked, but it took awhile for it to come off.

The 2nd time around I used a slide hammer to pull/hammer on each one of the tabs and the case came off much easier.

[Bret Brinkmann]

Originally Posted by massstealth

If the trans was pulled down, wouldn't the same operation apply. I don't think there no magic "tahdah" procedure when it is out of the car. My own personal experience wanst too bad and after just removing 2 times before, in 1 years time for clutches, just wasn't excited to remove the unit a third time.

If you forget a procedure with the trans on the ground....wouldnt that be more work to install the trans and find out later...then pull it back down. If you have done this particular procedure, its not that unfeasible to be done in the car. Everything is right there once the cover is off.....and this seems to be one of the more difficult duties of the job.

No sir, you would have to perform the same operation with the tranny on the ground. With the tranny on the ground you remove the bell housing and mid housing and then you can take the whole center diff out. No slide hammers on the end cover, no pressing on and off gears and bearings. Just a few dozen bolts total. Bolts are easier and faster to remove and replace than removing the shafts from the end cover. I mention this because RickyN29 has all ready spent 6 hours trying to replace the output shaft with the tranny in the car and he is still not done. He does not even have the old one out yet. He is not the only person in this position either. In 6 hours anyone can have the tranny removed, the shaft replaced, and the car back together.

In my experience and in talking with others, the hardest part of tranny R&R is mounting it on the block. Using a cherry picker hooked up at the bolts holes on the bell housing for the cable bracket is the fastest and easiest method. I personally have mounted one in under five minutes. With a properly aligned clutch I have never heard of it taking more than 25 minutes.

Reassembly of the tranny will be intuitive. The center diff/output shaft ssembly goes in, reinstall the mid housing, place the front diff and pinion shaft back in, reinstall the bell housing, and finally the shift shaft. While their may be more bolts involved and it can sound intimidating, other than bolts, there are fewer parts involved and a significantly reduced chance of damaging anything. With the tranny in the car, you are disassembling it backwards relative to how it was designed to be taken appart and therefore it is not as intuitive during disassembly or reassembly, and there is a far greater chance of damaging parts.

Based on the number of people who have asked me for help with in car shaft replacement and the kinds parts they are damaging, I believe it is easier, faster, cheaper, and far less risky for the average 3Si member to R&R the tranny. While it is feasible to do it in the car, I have seen too many members, even with the help from threads such as this, whom would have been much better off had they dropped the tranny. They almost never post their bad experiences with this proceedure. That is why I feel so strongly about this subject. If one uses the method of mounting the tranny to the block I mentioned above, there is no difficult part of the job.

[massstealth]

If my clutch had any kind of miles I would have dropped the trans. The only part that messed me up where the detent balls and bracket. I had them on backwards when I reassembled. Other that not removing the detent before removing the cover and installing the bracket upside down, my actual time spent was probably 4-5 hours.

Removing the cover was frustrating but all in all im glad I tried this procedure.

[Swandvr]

Bret; I'm another one like RickyN29 . My car has been in the garage for 2yrs. I got the end cover off with no problems. BUT... I should replace the bearings on the EC side of Int shaft. I'm thinking that's next to impossible with the tranny in the car.

What would be the best course of action now?

Originally Posted by Bret Brinkmann

No sir, you would have to perform the same operation with the tranny on the ground. With the tranny on the ground you remove the bell housing and mid housing and then you can take the whole center diff out. No slide hammers on the end cover, no pressing on and off gears and bearings. Just a few dozen bolts total. Bolts are easier and faster to remove and replace than removing the shafts from the end cover. I mention this because RickyN29 has all ready spent 6 hours trying to replace the output shaft with the tranny in the car and he is still not done. He does not even have the old one out yet. He is not the only person in this position either. In 6 hours anyone can have the tranny removed, the shaft replaced, and the car back together.

In my experience and in talking with others, the hardest part of tranny R&R is mounting it on the block. Using a cherry picker hooked up at the bolts holes on the bell housing for the cable bracket is the fastest and easiest method. I personally have mounted one in under five minutes. With a properly aligned clutch I have never heard of it taking more than 25 minutes.

Reassembly of the tranny will be intuitive. The center diff/output shaft ssembly goes in, reinstall the mid housing, place the front diff and pinion shaft back in, reinstall the bell housing, and finally the shift shaft. While their may be more bolts involved and it can sound intimidating, other than bolts, there are fewer parts involved and a significantly reduced chance of damaging anything. With the tranny in the car, you are disassembling it backwards relative to how it was designed to be taken appart and therefore it is not as intuitive during disassembly or reassembly, and there is a far greater chance of damaging parts.

Based on the number of people who have asked me for help with in car shaft replacement and the kinds parts they are damaging, I believe it is easier, faster, cheaper, and far less risky for the average 3Si member to R&R the tranny. While it is feasible to do it in the car, I have seen too many members, even with the help from threads such as this, whom would have been much better off had they dropped the tranny. They almost never post their bad experiences with this proceedure. That is why I feel so strongly about this subject. If one uses the method of mounting the tranny to the block I mentioned above, there is no difficult part of the job.

[TiberiusTribun]

I did the OS & TC spool swap yesterday. Surprisingly easy job. I just took the spools to a mercedes truck garage and got the gear and bearing pressed there and the rest was pretty straight forward. I just forgot to put the tranny into neutral before opening the tranny so I couldn't turn the VCU and one of the VCU case pins was hard to reach. And there were four of them, not three.

[JRC]

On those pins on the VCU cap, just use a punch and tap them all the way through to the inside. If you don't, one or more of them could be preventing the cap from coming off. They have to be re-installed "from the outside in" anyway and once the cap is off they will be right there waiting for you. Just make sure you remember to retrieve them. They are not good for the VCU if you leave one inside,,,,,,

[Bret Brinkmann]

Originally Posted by Swandvr

Bret; I'm another one like RickyN29 . My car has been in the garage for 2yrs. I got the end cover off with no problems. BUT... I should replace the bearings on the EC side of Int shaft. I'm thinking that's next to impossible with the tranny in the car.

What would be the best course of action now?

Unless the bearings are damaged, do not replace them. If they are damaged, then you need to check the bearing preload which would require the tranny to come out.

4-5 hours is pretty good for this proceedure, but that is how long it would take you to drop the tranny and swap shafts. All in all, if you are good, then you break even with this proceedure, if you are not as mechanically inclined, you will be luckly to break even with no problems afterwards.