Kormex Tranny Issues !!!

[Paradigm]

Originally Posted by KORMEX

Dave , I know you've been cool about it , and so has driver17 . I 'll help as much as I can man .

Dont think too deep into it Audiophobe. ^ This is all i wanted to see.

[phantomrt]

Here's my opinion on the shifter adjustment....

Adjustment of the cable that moves when you push the shifter forward and backwards (ex. from 3-4 gear) won't help things a single bit. If you had issues going to 2nd gear, you'd have the same issue going to 4th and reverse if this was a cable adjustment issue. If you had an issue with going to 3rd gear, you'd have an issue with 1&5 as well.

However, the "side to side" cable (the one that moves when moving the shifter side to side) does have advantageous adjustment...

Since the shifter mechanism automatically centers itself side-to-side, (at least I think it does) if it is adjusted to the extreme end of the adjustment, pushing the shifter into 3rd gear can result in the transmission basically trying to push the 1 and 3 shift forks simultaneously. There are provisions inside the transmission to make this physically impossible, but such a mis-adjustment could cause some irregularities in shifting, but it would occur on granny shifts as well as speed shifts.

But regardless, unless someone messed with the adjustment earlier in the car's life, the clump of cells in my tiny little skull cannot see why this should ever be adjusted. Maybe the cables wear/stretch over time? I doubt it. If you want to adjust it... this is how I would do it....

Disconnect the shifter cables from the shifter. Push and pull on the cables by hand to take note of where the center of their range of movement is and keep them there. Note that the shifter will auto-center itself side to side when you remove the cables. Adjust that cable so that you can install the cable without it moving the shifter side to side and thus fighting the spring that centers it. Then, move the shifter forward and backwards in order to take note of where of the center of its range of movement. Adjust that cable so that when installed, the shifter will be in the center of the forward/backwards range. Then you're done.

Originally Posted by venetrex

When it was mentioned that it was stuck in first gear and you have notchiness shifted and have to stay in neutral, that absolutely sounds like clutch drag.

Certainly does. However, there are a couple other things that could cause this. 1.) one of the gear shafts inside the transmission isn't spinning freely or is binding up for whatever reason, which will give the dragging clutch feeling.

2.) high fluid viscosity such as the 80w90 gear oil I have is creating a viscous drag on the transmission internals, thus resulting in the dragging clutch effect. As I said, my car feels like the parking brake is dragging at first, and shifting to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear isn't a pleasant experience. But just a mile down the road, the fluid must warm up some, and everything seems to be much happier.

but if the clutch was dragging, the problem would exist with all the gears, and it would be somewhat difficult to shift into any gear with the car at a stop.

The transmission in my Stealth is the only manual transmission I've ever had that had actual friction material on the synchronizer rings. Everything else has steel or brass synchros with the little grooves inside of them. Those other transmissions also use much lighter oil, and have done so for well over a hundred thousand miles. I use 5w 30 conventional Valvoline in them and they shift like new. The difference between 5w30 and straight weight 30 is that the 5w30 has more polymers added to the oil so it flows better when it is cold. Basically, as the fluid temperature changes, the fluid viscosity doesn't change as much with 5w30 as it does with straight 30. If you want a little easier shifting when cold, I'd recommend the multi-viscosity oil. I get peoples' blood pressure up when I dump 10w30 in their lawn mowers when the oil cap SPECIFICALLY says to use nothing but SAE 30 oil. It just goes to show how little they know about oil viscosity and normal operating temperature.

I am tempted to try automatic transmission fluid in the 3S transmission. It should work very well with the organic friction material on the synchronizer rings. The clutch packs in automatic transmissions have friction discs similar to that of what the 3s synchronizer rings are made of.

Driver17, where are you in Wisconsin? I'm assuming way down by Milwuakee since it seems that 90% of Wisconsin's population is there. I'd like to take a look at your car to compare it with mine.

[cbehnken]

Originally Posted by phantomrt

Here's my opinion on the shifter adjustment....

Adjustment of the cable that moves when you push the shifter forward and backwards (ex. from 3-4 gear) won't help things a single bit. If you had issues going to 2nd gear, you'd have the same issue going to 4th and reverse if this was a cable adjustment issue. If you had an issue with going to 3rd gear, you'd have an issue with 1&5 as well.

However, the "side to side" cable (the one that moves when moving the shifter side to side) does have advantageous adjustment...

Since the shifter mechanism automatically centers itself side-to-side, (at least I think it does) if it is adjusted to the extreme end of the adjustment, pushing the shifter into 3rd gear can result in the transmission basically trying to push the 1 and 3 shift forks simultaneously. There are provisions inside the transmission to make this physically impossible, but such a mis-adjustment could cause some irregularities in shifting, but it would occur on granny shifts as well as speed shifts.

But regardless, unless someone messed with the adjustment earlier in the car's life, the clump of cells in my tiny little skull cannot see why this should ever be adjusted. Maybe the cables wear/stretch over time? I doubt it. If you want to adjust it... this is how I would do it....

Disconnect the shifter cables from the shifter. Push and pull on the cables by hand to take note of where the center of their range of movement is and keep them there. Note that the shifter will auto-center itself side to side when you remove the cables. Adjust that cable so that you can install the cable without it moving the shifter side to side and thus fighting the spring that centers it. Then, move the shifter forward and backwards in order to take note of where of the center of its range of movement. Adjust that cable so that when installed, the shifter will be in the center of the forward/backwards range. Then you're done.



Certainly does. However, there are a couple other things that could cause this. 1.) one of the gear shafts inside the transmission isn't spinning freely or is binding up for whatever reason, which will give the dragging clutch feeling.

2.) high fluid viscosity such as the 80w90 gear oil I have is creating a viscous drag on the transmission internals, thus resulting in the dragging clutch effect. As I said, my car feels like the parking brake is dragging at first, and shifting to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear isn't a pleasant experience. But just a mile down the road, the fluid must warm up some, and everything seems to be much happier.

but if the clutch was dragging, the problem would exist with all the gears, and it would be somewhat difficult to shift into any gear with the car at a stop.

The transmission in my Stealth is the only manual transmission I've ever had that had actual friction material on the synchronizer rings. Everything else has steel or brass synchros with the little grooves inside of them. Those other transmissions also use much lighter oil, and have done so for well over a hundred thousand miles. I use 5w 30 conventional Valvoline in them and they shift like new. The difference between 5w30 and straight weight 30 is that the 5w30 has more polymers added to the oil so it flows better when it is cold. Basically, as the fluid temperature changes, the fluid viscosity doesn't change as much with 5w30 as it does with straight 30. If you want a little easier shifting when cold, I'd recommend the multi-viscosity oil. I get peoples' blood pressure up when I dump 10w30 in their lawn mowers when the oil cap SPECIFICALLY says to use nothing but SAE 30 oil. It just goes to show how little they know about oil viscosity and normal operating temperature.

I am tempted to try automatic transmission fluid in the 3S transmission. It should work very well with the organic friction material on the synchronizer rings. The clutch packs in automatic transmissions have friction discs similar to that of what the 3s synchronizer rings are made of.

Driver17, where are you in Wisconsin? I'm assuming way down by Milwuakee since it seems that 90% of Wisconsin's population is there. I'd like to take a look at your car to compare it with mine.

If you want to try an ATF type tranny fluid try the royal purple syncromax. I have thought about it to.

It seems that the thinner fluid you can get in the trans the smoother it is, but I would suspect increase wear. I do not know if the trans missions that specify ATF have different bearing tolerances or not. I know even the new C6 has ATF from the factory, so it is not like only weak trannies have it.

[driver17]

Driver17, where are you in Wisconsin? I'm assuming way down by Milwuakee since it seems that 90% of Wisconsin's population is there. I'd like to take a look at your car to compare it with mine.

I live in Green Bay actually. But some weekends I go up to Minocqua.

[phantomrt]

Perhaps there will be an increase in wear, but I cannot ignore the fact that automatic transmissions have gearsets inside of them, and FWD automatic transmissions have a big huge differential that needs lubrication just like that of a rear drive car/truck that uses 80w90 gear lube. I've never seen a manual transmission with 5w30 engine oil in it have more metal shavings on the magnet than what a solid axle differential has with 80w90 gear oil. And if we're talking synchronizer wear, my Stealth has 69,000 miles on it, and already has two synchros that aren't so great. So, that tells me that the 80w90 that has been in there for the last 16 years doesn't exactly prevent wear all that well either. Maybe with the lighter oil it only would have lasted 40,000 miles, but nobody really knows.

[driver17]

After adjusting my shifter cables many times they are the best its going to get as far as those are concerned. The pic of my shifter cables is where they are staying and I get the best shifting. I did pull both cables up, off the pins and they are directly above the pins and seem like they are centered in their range of motion. The cable on the right does move forward and back about a 1/8"-1/4" all the time, no matter how adjusted.

What I have noticed since I last adjusted my shifter cables is that when at a complete stop, it does not want to go into 1st gear very easily. It does this prolly 1/3 times. I have to push on it like I am going to 1st, if it doesn't go right in I pull back slightly, wiggle it and try again. It does go in but there is resistance and I have to pull more left and it goes. Another issue when at a stoplight is if it does go into 1st easily, I can fell and here the driveshaft turn slightly/clunk. Which acts exactly like an automatic. That does not seem healthy or normal for a manual transmission.

Is it normal for it to not want to go into reverse when cold? Sometimes I have to put it in 1st and roll an inch or two and then it goes in reverse much easier ( I would not expect this from a recently rebuilt tranny). Also when backing up then coming to a stop. It gets stuck in reverse sometimes, meaning it doesn't want to come out of reverse at all. Its only happened twice so far but thats two times too much! I have to back up farther and push the clutch in a few times and then there is resistance for it to come out of reverse but finally does.

These are all normal problems I would expect to have with a VR4 transmission that has 90K on it. But since I have a rebuilt kormex trans and brand new clutch I didn't expect to have any of these issues. My only option left is on Friday I am going to install a stainless steel clutch line, and bleed it. The shifting is so inconsitant that it really seems like a tiny tiny bubble to me. I could be wrong or way off but I am out of ideas and pissed off that I spent this much on a rebuilt tranny when I still get tons of issues!!!

Anyone else have these same issues, maybe a resolution or some suggestions, or even someone with a kormex trans speak up please. Is your $2500 kormex trans acting the same as mine???

[cbehnken]

Originally Posted by driver17

After adjusting my shifter cables many times they are the best its going to get as far as those are concerned. The pic of my shifter cables is where they are staying and I get the best shifting. I did pull both cables up, off the pins and they are directly above the pins and seem like they are centered in their range of motion. The cable on the right does move forward and back about a 1/8"-1/4" all the time, no matter how adjusted.

What I have noticed since I last adjusted my shifter cables is that when at a complete stop, it does not want to go into 1st gear very easily. It does this prolly 1/3 times. I have to push on it like I am going to 1st, if it doesn't go right in I pull back slightly, wiggle it and try again. It does go in but there is resistance and I have to pull more left and it goes. Another issue when at a stoplight is if it does go into 1st easily, I can fell and here the driveshaft turn slightly/clunk. Which acts exactly like an automatic. That does not seem healthy or normal for a manual transmission.

Is it normal for it to not want to go into reverse when cold? Sometimes I have to put it in 1st and roll an inch or two and then it goes in reverse much easier ( I would not expect this from a recently rebuilt tranny). Also when backing up then coming to a stop. It gets stuck in reverse sometimes, meaning it doesn't want to come out of reverse at all. Its only happened twice so far but thats two times too much! I have to back up farther and push the clutch in a few times and then there is resistance for it to come out of reverse but finally does.

These are all normal problems I would expect to have with a VR4 transmission that has 90K on it. But since I have a rebuilt kormex trans and brand new clutch I didn't expect to have any of these issues. My only option left is on Friday I am going to install a stainless steel clutch line, and bleed it. The shifting is so inconsitant that it really seems like a tiny tiny bubble to me. I could be wrong or way off but I am out of ideas and pissed off that I spent this much on a rebuilt tranny when I still get tons of issues!!!

Anyone else have these same issues, maybe a resolution or some suggestions, or even someone with a kormex trans speak up please. Is your $2500 kormex trans acting the same as mine???

your clutch is dragging. FOR SURE.

[driver17]

How is a dragging clutch fixed exactly? Just an R & R of the clutch to re-position it or ??? Thanks cbehnken!

[KORMEX]

Originally Posted by driver17

After adjusting my shifter cables many times they are the best its going to get as far as those are concerned. The pic of my shifter cables is where they are staying and I get the best shifting. I did pull both cables up, off the pins and they are directly above the pins and seem like they are centered in their range of motion. The cable on the right does move forward and back about a 1/8"-1/4" all the time, no matter how adjusted.

What I have noticed since I last adjusted my shifter cables is that when at a complete stop, it does not want to go into 1st gear very easily. It does this prolly 1/3 times. I have to push on it like I am going to 1st, if it doesn't go right in I pull back slightly, wiggle it and try again. It does go in but there is resistance and I have to pull more left and it goes. Another issue when at a stoplight is if it does go into 1st easily, I can fell and here the driveshaft turn slightly/clunk. Which acts exactly like an automatic. That does not seem healthy or normal for a manual transmission.

Is it normal for it to not want to go into reverse when cold? Sometimes I have to put it in 1st and roll an inch or two and then it goes in reverse much easier ( I would not expect this from a recently rebuilt tranny). Also when backing up then coming to a stop. It gets stuck in reverse sometimes, meaning it doesn't want to come out of reverse at all. Its only happened twice so far but thats two times too much! I have to back up farther and push the clutch in a few times and then there is resistance for it to come out of reverse but finally does.

These are all normal problems I would expect to have with a VR4 transmission that has 90K on it. But since I have a rebuilt kormex trans and brand new clutch I didn't expect to have any of these issues. My only option left is on Friday I am going to install a stainless steel clutch line, and bleed it. The shifting is so inconsitant that it really seems like a tiny tiny bubble to me. I could be wrong or way off but I am out of ideas and pissed off that I spent this much on a rebuilt tranny when I still get tons of issues!!!

Anyone else have these same issues, maybe a resolution or some suggestions, or even someone with a kormex trans speak up please. Is your $2500 kormex trans acting the same as mine???

You need to get your car checked out by someone that knows what they're doing. Thats as simple as it gets man .
Why are you adjusting cables ?, Why are you going to bleed the clutch if you KNOW that the trans is no good ? And if you don't know wtf are you doing disparraging us ?

The simple answer is that you don't know, but rather then learning about how it all works , you want to find some sort of "Resolution" . I asked you to check the plastic sleave on the cables to see if they are loose and you ignored my post , people have been telling you that your clutch is dragging ,And you say no .

here's some hints

"What I have noticed since I last adjusted my shifter cables is that when at a complete stop, it does not want to go into 1st gear very easily. It does this prolly 1/3 times. "

When you are at a complete stop the trans should behave the same as when the car is turned off , does it ?? if it doesn't your car needs to be fixed.

"Another issue when at a stoplight is if it does go into 1st easily, I can fell and here the driveshaft turn slightly/clunk. Which acts exactly like an automatic. That does not seem healthy or normal for a manual transmission."

Your clutch master cylinder has problems , totaly unrelated to what we did .
Think about how the components work .

And BTW you did not pay me $2500.00 for the trans .

This shit is getting old ......

[driver17]

(1)I did check the plastic sleeves. They are not loose. I would have stated that in my earlier post if they had been.

(2)I am adjusting cables because my stock tranny did not shift well and people have proved by adjusting these cables it helps slightly. I figured it couldn't hurt my old tranny so why not. Since I have a rebuilt tranny now I would assume they need to be adjusted again back to their original spots.

(3)That is a brand new clutch master cylinder. Installed with this transmission. It could very well be that its bad, but the only way I know to tell if the clutch master cylinder is bad is if it leaks.

(4)I am going to bleed the clutch because I am going to install the stainless steel line. And the inconsistency of shifts leads me to believe there is a tiny bit of air in the line(prolly my rookie observation) And I dont know that the tranny is bad for sure. I am looking for suggestions on other things to check and look for first. Hence the reason for this post.

(5)People come here to learn. If everyone knew everything about cars, these forums would not exist. They simply exist for people to learn and share information. I am looking for other ideas and suggestions before I determine to have the tranny pulled and checked out. I am not a complete dumbass like you project me to be. I do not know the inner workings of our transmissions so if that makes me some sort of lesser than so be it.

(6)The only one I trust in my area to even touch my car is my new found mechanic that is 2 hours away, so its not easy for me to just have someone 'look at it'. Its not like I can take my car to joe shmoe and have them take a look at it. No shops will even work on these without manuals.

(7)Sorry the transmission wasn't quite 2500. It was 1750 for the tranny itself. Then shipping is 300. Then for the general public we have to pay to have it installed. So yes, your right, its wasn't quite 2500. More like around 2000. My horrible mistake.