Getrag 440/446 parts. - Page 18 - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

Gatecrasher · 04-27-2004, 09:21 AM

Most syncros are a bronze type material, except for certain newer Porsches that use steel syncros.

Our rings use a paper-like friction material on the inner rings. This is what takes the abuse of matching the speed difference between the gear shaft and the actual gear.

Syncros are a wear item. It's almost like a tiny clutch for your gears. The problem with ours is they seem to wear abnormally fast.

I bought some all-metal syncros for my FWD trans a year or so back. I believe they were out of an older Evo. Those things were beefy. Shift effort was a bit higher, but they locked in fast and solid.

It'd be nice if we could eliminate the 3-cone syncros from 1st and 2nd and replace them with a single ring, beefed up all-metal unit like I had for my F5M.

I spoke with Howard yesterday and he's got the ball rolling on a test order for a 2nd gear 6-spd ring kit. I'll let you guys know how it goes once he hears back from his distributor.

devilmanVISA · 04-27-2004, 09:44 AM

Well, I am trying to set up some stuff with my machinist to do the inner and outer rings from either billet steel or ductile iron, as well as the shift forks and whatnot. The problem is machine work on something like this will cost quite a bit unless we have a big initial order, but we will have a much stronger double cone synchro afterwards. Unless someone can toss me a design for a single cone synchro for 1/2 that is *cough*Jeff*cough* Once I crack open my trans I will see if I can come up with something as well.

SkortchGT · 04-27-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Most syncros are a bronze type material, except for certain newer Porsches that use steel syncros.

Our rings use a paper-like friction material on the inner rings. This is what takes the abuse of matching the speed difference between the gear shaft and the actual gear.

Syncros are a wear item. It's almost like a tiny clutch for your gears. The problem with ours is they seem to wear abnormally fast.

I bought some all-metal syncros for my FWD trans a year or so back. I believe they were out of an older Evo. Those things were beefy. Shift effort was a bit higher, but they locked in fast and solid.

It'd be nice if we could eliminate the 3-cone syncros from 1st and 2nd and replace them with a single ring, beefed up all-metal unit like I had for my F5M.

I spoke with Howard yesterday and he's got the ball rolling on a test order for a 2nd gear 6-spd ring kit. I'll let you guys know how it goes once he hears back from his distributor.

I'd like to see some steel syncros. It would be great if we could get stock replacements, but some replacement steel syncros/beefy syncros would be great.

RobBeck · 04-27-2004, 01:42 PM

You are a crack smoker

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkortchGT

I'd like to see some steel syncros. It would be great if we could get stock replacements, but some replacement steel syncros/beefy syncros would be great.

mikes2nd · 04-27-2004, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkortchGT

I'd like to see some steel syncros. It would be great if we could get stock replacements, but some replacement steel syncros/beefy syncros would be great.

okay this sounds like the BOMB

Bret Brinkmann · 04-27-2004, 05:53 PM

geoffw - I tried to buy from them direct and they told me I had to get Mitsu permission. I'm working on that still.

devilmanVISA - So what are the OEM inner blocker rings made out of it is isn't iron or steel?

I was under the impression that triple synchros did a better job at synchronization. The Skylines have triple 1/2 and double 3/4 I believe. I still strongly that the synchros are symptom of other issues and not the cause of the problem. A leaking slave of master clutch cylinder can cause the clutch to drag and then synchronization would because very hard. Especially at higher RPMs. This is how my car's lastest tranny problems came about. I have a new master cylinder on order. Also if the synchros can't do their job because of a draging clutch or previous owners neglect to change the fluid regularly (or use the wrong fluid) and you try to shift gears anyway, then you break a shift fork. (The synchros won't like that either.)

devilmanVISA · 04-27-2004, 06:42 PM

Bret, I honestly couldn't tell you right off the top of my head what they are made out of. But I guarantee you I can find a stronger material to re-make them. Hell some of the stuff I have access to would destroy the trans gear where the inner ring sits before it broke.

RobBeck · 04-27-2004, 06:59 PM

This is exactly why we shouldnt care to look into making bullit proof synchros. The idea is just ridiculous, lets just stay focused on getting factory stuff fellas.
The automobile is mechanical, with mechanics comes maintenance... its just a fact of life. The only problem we have is getting sourcing on our parts, but our parts do work fine if we can get them.

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilmanVISA

Hell some of the stuff I have access to would destroy the trans gear where the inner ring sits before it broke.

devilmanVISA · 04-27-2004, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBeck

This is exactly why we shouldnt care to look into making bullit proof synchros. The idea is just ridiculous, lets just stay focused on getting factory stuff fellas.
The automobile is mechanical, with mechanics comes maintenance... its just a fact of life. The only problem we have is getting sourcing on our parts, but our parts do work fine if we can get them.

Rob

Ok. You focus on getting the factory stuff ever 6-12 months

I will focus on building a trans that takes more than a stiff breeze to blow over.

RobBeck · 04-27-2004, 08:24 PM

Good luck man.

Rob

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilmanVISA

Ok. You focus on getting the factory stuff ever 6-12 months

I will focus on building a trans that takes more than a stiff breeze to blow over.

04-27-2004, 09:21 AM	#171 (permalink)
Gatecrasher The Chaosbringer Join Date: Aug 1999 Drives: 81 Fiat Panda Trader Rating: (7)	Re: Getrag 440/446 parts. Most syncros are a bronze type material, except for certain newer Porsches that use steel syncros. Our rings use a paper-like friction material on the inner rings. This is what takes the abuse of matching the speed difference between the gear shaft and the actual gear. Syncros are a wear item. It's almost like a tiny clutch for your gears. The problem with ours is they seem to wear abnormally fast. I bought some all-metal syncros for my FWD trans a year or so back. I believe they were out of an older Evo. Those things were beefy. Shift effort was a bit higher, but they locked in fast and solid. It'd be nice if we could eliminate the 3-cone syncros from 1st and 2nd and replace them with a single ring, beefed up all-metal unit like I had for my F5M. I spoke with Howard yesterday and he's got the ball rolling on a test order for a 2nd gear 6-spd ring kit. I'll let you guys know how it goes once he hears back from his distributor. __________________ North Bend Technologies - northbendtech.com

04-27-2004, 09:44 AM	#172 (permalink)
devilmanVISA Hellfire Master Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Running in your head Trader Rating: (21)	Re: Getrag 440/446 parts. Well, I am trying to set up some stuff with my machinist to do the inner and outer rings from either billet steel or ductile iron, as well as the shift forks and whatnot. The problem is machine work on something like this will cost quite a bit unless we have a big initial order, but we will have a much stronger double cone synchro afterwards. Unless someone can toss me a design for a single cone synchro for 1/2 that is coughJeffcough Once I crack open my trans I will see if I can come up with something as well. __________________ Who will survive and what will be left of them...

04-27-2004, 05:53 PM	#176 (permalink)
Bret Brinkmann Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Charlotte NC Drives: Rear wheels only... Trader Rating: (4)	Re: Getrag 440/446 parts. geoffw - I tried to buy from them direct and they told me I had to get Mitsu permission. I'm working on that still. devilmanVISA - So what are the OEM inner blocker rings made out of it is isn't iron or steel? I was under the impression that triple synchros did a better job at synchronization. The Skylines have triple 1/2 and double 3/4 I believe. I still strongly that the synchros are symptom of other issues and not the cause of the problem. A leaking slave of master clutch cylinder can cause the clutch to drag and then synchronization would because very hard. Especially at higher RPMs. This is how my car's lastest tranny problems came about. I have a new master cylinder on order. Also if the synchros can't do their job because of a draging clutch or previous owners neglect to change the fluid regularly (or use the wrong fluid) and you try to shift gears anyway, then you break a shift fork. (The synchros won't like that either.) __________________ When asked what the best thing to come out of Italy is, most Italians will tell you Ferrari.... But if you ask me it was Super Mario Brothers. 250 RWHP If you want the exploded views of both 5 and 6 speeds or pics e-mail me at SavagTiger@AOL.com. 94 VR-4 Panama Green Tan Interior RPS II, gutted cats, flipped BPV, 3SX control arms, 3SX shift bushings, Red Line, Auto-Meter. Rebuilt TC, transaxle, steering rack, heads, and turbos. 360cc's blue printened with in 1%. New short block. RWD convertion and welded rear end.

04-27-2004, 06:42 PM	#177 (permalink)
devilmanVISA Hellfire Master Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Running in your head Trader Rating: (21)	Re: Getrag 440/446 parts. Bret, I honestly couldn't tell you right off the top of my head what they are made out of. But I guarantee you I can find a stronger material to re-make them. Hell some of the stuff I have access to would destroy the trans gear where the inner ring sits before it broke.

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