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Drivetrain Components to Reliably Support 1200whp

6K views 37 replies 20 participants last post by  TwinTurboGuy 
#1 ·
Looking for some information which may or may not be readily available.

I am considering purchasing a 94-99 AWD chassis (6spd car) for a project I have wanted to do for a long time.

I would like to know, what it would take (preferably from the guys with first hand experience) to make the AWD system support 1000awhp relatively reliably.

How durable are the 6spd Getrags? What are the common failures associated with these transmissions once you start making large HP and TQ

How does the transfer case hold up? I have seen the billet offerings, and I believe a company offers a stainless unit as well?

Basically, what is the recipe from the transmission to rear diff to put the power down without self destruction on take-off?

Thanks in advance for your input and knowledge.
 
#3 ·
you can not reliably run 1200hp through a 6spd set up, because the teeth sheer off the transfer case gears.


there is no fix for this yet, however i heard there are a few groups of people researching.



if you need a reliable 1200hp set up right now, you need a 5speed trans, and a 5 speed transfer case with the billet housing upgrades.
 
#5 ·
To support that much you are going to need a badass twin disc clutch, 5 speed, 300m output shaft, billet or stainless transfer case housings, a bellhousing brace, and still be prepared to break it if you launch the Jesus out of it constantly.

Eventually ray found after abuse at 1100AWHP the input shaft starts cracking.

I'm not sure what you are expecting, but 1200AWHP is a ton of power for a drivetrain designed to handle 240. We have very stout transmission internals, but you could run a TR6060 from a viper and if you launched it all the time at 1200 wheel you'd still probably break it.

I guess what I am trying to say if your idea of fun isn't the possibility of dropping the trans or clutch every few race weekends than launching hard at 1200AWHP might not be for you.

Wrinkle wall slicks will help a LOT and like said above weight reduction will too. If you can spin a little on the launch it is a lot easier on parts.
 
#10 ·
The alternative to the aforementioned above is the jdm awd auto.

Internally shares components with the dsm awd auto - meaning anything they can get to buikd it as a drag monster (and they have)you can too, specifically from IPT performance.

Rig a sequential shift box setup, and stay out of 4th/OD by revving out 1,2,3

With a good stall, you can brake boost at the line and preload the drivetrain to help reduce breakage.

Some could consider it sacrelidge to swap a 5/6spd out for a sequential auto, but the current record time has been set on an auto car and they're actually pretty stout out of the box, handling 500+ awhp with as little as a trans cooler and wiring mods for full line pressure.

I know you plan on going with the 6, but just some food for thought.
 
#11 ·
I agree with arm0red1. If I could start from scratch again, I would go with the JDM AWD Auto.

I have the following upgrades in my drive train and still don't have confidence that it will hold together:

RPS CC Clutch, Bell housing Brace, DR 6 Speed end case, 300 m output shaft, 300 m input shaft, Mark Williams input spool, 6 speed stage 2 transfer case bracket, PST 2 piece CFDS, Ray's 300 m rear axles, all solid motor and trans mounts, new rear diff bushings and a Magnus launching device. Slipping the clutch out of the hole is a must. Having some tire spin to help relieve shock to the drive train certainly helps.

The above stated parts cost close to $10,000. I highly recommend considering going the "Auto" route.

Marshall
 
#13 ·
Sychros. High rpm lockout. Kills all the fun of making big power because you can't build a high rpm build without an auto.
Rough to try to do all the the work with boost and no rpms (effectively making the engine larger).
 
#15 ·
5spd with Billet transfer case housings and Carbonetics triple disc clutch or that big one from clutchmasters and Pampenas sourced 300m rear axles is about it. While all those things will hold 1200whp(did it on Rays chameleon car for years) it will still break from time to time and need relatively constant attention to keep working correctly.

A 1200whp 3/S has gotta be for highway pulls i figure? If its for from a dig drags, go auto.

Jason
 
#16 · (Edited)
Even from a dig, the problem with high hp auto is getting a 6g to rev so you don't have to shift to OD. If all the races end before 130mph then somewhere around 8k limiter is fine. Go above that and you'll need to fit 28" tires or a dry sump and a valvetrain and intake setup to make power above 8k reliably.

You have to figure out what speed you want to run and tire height and work backwards from there to build an engine and torque converter setup that will work for that mph/revs.

If sticking with a 6sp and you actually want to race and not just cruise around, dogbox would be the way to go.


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#17 ·
There's a guy in the UK running 1000+ hp and he's had several dog box failures, they aren't the be all and end all..

As people have said a heavily built auto box will have a better time of it but you are limited (wonder if anyone had a go at modifying final drive ratios yet?).
 
#19 ·
Thanks to all who replied.

Simply contemplating an additional shop project and gathering information.

My shop specializes in forced induction and late model GM performance. I do LSx performance conversions, and I have been toying around with the idea of converting a Stealth or 3000gt to an LS based motor and retaining the AWD system.

It would primarily be a ridiculous street car with front mounted twins. I would most likely shoot for around 900whp, but I would like to be able to turn it up a little without the driveline components self destructing.

I don't know a lot about the chassis and durability of the components which is why I am here for some first hand experience.

-----------------------------------------------
Heres a few pics of some of the shop work and projects i've contributed too before everyone starts calling b/s ....

2001 Carrera AWD 408ci LS in the back.
Retains the AWD and 6spd (under construction)



stock long-block turbo third-gen. 148mph traps on a BWS475



The Cotton's Performance Grand Prix



My personal car:
1981 Caprice Classic 4.8L single turbo 4l80e street car



 
#20 ·
So are you thinking stock drivetrain with custom bellhousing to mate to LS? How does dimensions of LS motor compare to 6g72? That would be F'n awesome if you can make it work. (You realize engine is turned vs your RWD LS chassis correct?) Now you have me thinking again:D


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#22 ·
So are you thinking stock drivetrain with custom bellhousing to mate to LS? How does dimensions of LS motor compare to 6g72? That would be F'n awesome if you can make it work. (You realize engine is turned vs your RWD LS chassis correct?) Now you have me thinking again:D
An aluminum 5.3 version of the LS family (LS4) came in FWD applications with a smaller bellhousing.

Regardless, it is physically the same size as the RWD version with a 13mm shorter crankshaft, and a smaller overall bell pattern. I just need to see which would be more feasible and supply adequate space for adapting to the 3S bellhousing.

Again...I am not pretending to start building this thing tomorrow. Just collecting information at this stage to see if it is a feasible application for the motor.
 
#26 ·


A bare block is 15" long. There is like 4 inches from the rear timing cover to the strut tower and the 6spd with an end case basically touches the frame on the other side.

Jason
 
#27 ·
There is a guy doing a LS swap in a 3/s on here..has a detailed build thread too...


also been several V8 fitted 3/s done....2 of them ran 8's that I know of.

I kinda don't want to put another LS back into my starion and drop a 6G in it.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I actually think it's more possible than we think. 6g72 has oil pump and timing belt cover in front, but LS engines only have chain cover. What I don't know is the LS is much wider and it might sit on top of subframe with no room for exhaust, but you can make custom subframe. . It could be possible with electric water pump, 5 speed and a little frame modifying. 5 speed is good to 205mph at 7k rpm so you have enough top end. If you can rev higher then 220-230 is possible. I think at 9k rpm 250mph is possible on 5 speed. I'm not a fan of other engine in other cars specially 3000gt but I really want to know how the car behaves with different engines and same trans.
 
#36 ·
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