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Old 04-02-2004, 12:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Well after running Evans brand coolant for a few years (has it been that long?) I'm going back to a conventional setup. Depending on outside temps I've seen 225-229F with the A/C on the highway already this year and I don't think it's been over 92F yet. Hate to see what it does when its 111-112F! Its not really a big deal since it doesn't boil until 360F but my oil temps are elevated (240-245F on the highway) and at least one fan is always running in low speed as I rarely see under 205F coolant temps when its over 85F. After doing some research it told me what I already knew...plain water and Redline Water Wetter will yield the lowest coolant temps. Here's the setup I'm going to try:

- TRD 1.5 kg/cm2 (21.75 psi) radiator cap ($30)
- 8.7 quarts of distilled water
- 7-8 oz. of water wetter

This should yeild a boiling point of roughly 262-263F and the lowest possible coolant temps. If I have any problems with boilover or the heater core freezing with the A/C on I'll add some coolant...but for now I'm going to try this out and see what happens.
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Old 04-02-2004, 10:13 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Will water wetter provide enough lubrication for the bearings in the water pump? From my understanding coolant not only prevented freezing/boiling, but also contained lubricants. -Ian
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Old 04-02-2004, 01:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor
Well after running Evans brand coolant for a few years (has it been that long?) I'm going back to a conventional setup. Depending on outside temps I've seen 225-229F with the A/C on the highway already this year and I don't think it's been over 92F yet. Hate to see what it does when its 111-112F! Its not really a big deal since it doesn't boil until 360F but my oil temps are elevated (240-245F on the highway) and at least one fan is always running in low speed as I rarely see under 205F coolant temps when its over 85F. After doing some research it told me what I already knew...plain water and Redline Water Wetter will yield the lowest coolant temps. Here's the setup I'm going to try:

- TRD 1.5 kg/cm2 (21.75 psi) radiator cap ($30)
- 8.7 quarts of distilled water
- 7-8 oz. of water wetter

This should yeild a boiling point of roughly 262-263F and the lowest possible coolant temps. If I have any problems with boilover or the heater core freezing with the A/C on I'll add some coolant...but for now I'm going to try this out and see what happens.
Water should have a much better specific heat compared to Evans NPG. Hmmm. I think I'm going to look up some numbers on that one....

-Chris
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Old 04-02-2004, 01:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

I have been using distilled water and water wetter every summer and then just drain out about 1/2 and add straight coolant for the winter. U might never have to worry about the cold in Arizona.

Sam
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Old 04-02-2004, 02:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

The specific heat of propylene glycol is 2.5kJ/kg versus about 4.2kJ/kg for water. Unless Evans is using something other than straight propylene glycol, that's a BIG difference. Evans coolant would have maybe 60% the capacity of water kg for kg.

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Old 04-02-2004, 02:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Multiades
The specific heat of propylene glycol is 2.5kJ/kg versus about 4.2kJ/kg for water. Unless Evans is using something other than straight propylene glycol, that's a BIG difference. Evans coolant would have maybe 60% the capacity of water kg for kg.

-Chris

Thats the info (but in idiot speak- graphing mode for the toothless and inbred) on the water wetter bottle as well.

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Old 04-02-2004, 08:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Here's a mean tech article I ran accorss that made up my mind and worked to prove alot of things I had read:
http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html

Evans coolant is 100% propylene glycol...no water added. Cool thing is it doesn't boil until 360F. Thats great when you think about localized boiling around the cylinders causing hotspots with conventional...with Evans there's no way you're going to get hotspots in the combustion chamber that can possibly cause knock. Bad thing is propylene glycol's specific heat isn't all that great. That effectively makes your radiator act like its smaller than it really is. That also means that when your engine makes a fixed amount of heat the Evans coolant temps will rise more than water will. That's all fine and dandy when you remember that it won't boil until 360F...it has plenty of overhead. The bad thing is the fans run more often than they should since the stock computer thinks you're getting hotter than you should be. The other bad thing is your oil temps go up from the extra heat in the block so you need a nice big oil cooler to manage things. Granted Mobil 1 says its good for 400F but I know most road racers shut things down at 300F. Other negatives to the Evans coolant are the cost and the large expansion rate range of the fluid with temperature swings.

Plain water with Water Wetter (or a similar surfactant like purple ice or stay cool) keeps temps the lowest. Problem with it is a boiling and freezing protection. Water wetter doesn't do anything significant to the boiling or freezing point of plain water. The best protection for boil over is adding conventional antifreeze but that will increase your actual coolant temps. If you want to increase the boiling point while avoiding antifreeze you need to crank the system pressure as high as possible. The highest pressure cap I could find is the TRD at 1.5 kg/cm2 (21.75 psi) which will raise the boiling point to 262-263F. Of course with the high pressure comes the chance of busting hoses. Water Wetter does contain corrosion inhibitors but they don't hold up for too long. Redline reccomends replenishing or replacing the Water Wetter every 15,000 miles.
http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/wwti.htm

Of interest is this computer water cooling review of Water Wetter:
http://www.bunkermentality.net/wetter.html
The guy tested different concentrations of Water Wetter and more than the reccomended amount actually hurt the heat transfer abilities of the coolant. That means for the size of our cooling system we want to use somewhere between 6.6 and 8.7 oz of Water Wetter...no more and no less. You won't even need a whole 12 oz bottle if you want it to work at max capacity.

Last edited by Trevor; 04-02-2004 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Nice informative post Trevor, thanks
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Old 04-04-2004, 05:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Interesting, what about corrosion and scaling. Does water wetter protect against any of this?
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Old 04-04-2004, 08:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dumping evans coolant to go back to a conventional setup...

Yep...Water Wetter has corrosion inhibitors so you don't technically need anti-freeze.

Well, when looking at the weather history for last winter I noticed it hit 23F one morning so I went ahead and added 12.5% anti-freeze in the mix (33 oz). Just enough to protect me down to 22F or so. The coolant is all flushed and swapped over but probably not all the way full yet. I took it for a spin and temps were 195-211F in 55F ambient temps. Not great but as soon as the fan came on at 210-211F temps dropped right back down to 195F immediately and the fans didn't run much at all. Maybe after I get it completely full it'll run a hair cooler.

If it still hits 221F or so I'll drain everything again and run 100% water and 8.4 Oz of Water Wetter until November when it gets below freezing again. If that fails and I still hit 221F I guess I'll invest in a PPE dual pass radiator and figure out some way to squeeze it in front of my front turbo.
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