AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>>

[pengulns2001]

hey if you guys dont have the lates wizard files get them!!! they are less than a month old ive been missing out lol, ill have my 1600 map done soon lol in case anyone needs it

[3r tech]

Originally Posted by lethal_vr4

Can you recommend one in the mid-west. I am in Cedar Rapids, IA 52402.

Car is a road course car, and it tuned decently for the street (no problems at all), however on the track I get a lot of bucking on full throttle transitions in the corners.... The tuner I bring with me to the track is having difficulties tuning it out due to all the g-forces on track. Not really the best place to tune.

Not sure how far you are willing to travel, but Payne Technology in Michigan is top notch. IF you can send me some logfiles of what is happening on the track along with a cal file I will do what I can to sharpen it up.

[3r tech]

Originally Posted by slava

I missed that post somehow.
Recomendation for PA, 17110.

There are several in your area. My first recommendation is Eugene if he happens to be in your area- he has a good grip on the AEM and is reasonably priced. If he isnt available or you choose not to use him you can take the car to Turbo Performance Center in Jessup Maryland(not sure how far that is from you, OR you can send me your cal files and logs and I will sharpen it up for you.

[3r tech]

while I am thinking about it I always choose to log to the laptop. Internal logging is nice to find faults when the car dies or starts acting funny, but is pretty useless for logging accel runs or similar.

[Renner]

Originally Posted by 3r tech

while I am thinking about it I always choose to log to the laptop. Internal logging is nice to find faults when the car dies or starts acting funny, but is pretty useless for logging accel runs or similar.

Hmm, not sure I agree with this. For high load tuning runs I use the internal logger with the highest sample rate (250 samples/sec) exclusively. The laptop logger sample rate is limited by the serial cable, laptop hardware, and amount of other software currently running, and it is simply too slow.

The internal logger is the only thing fast enough to catch (nearly) all of the knock noise. I do sometimes run the laptop logger as a backup in case I have an internal logger error, since it does happen sometimes, and the laptop logger seems to be a little bit more reliable in terms of making sure you at least get something. In those cases it is very easy to compare internal vs laptop logs for the same run, and to see the small peaks in knock or a/f that the laptop logger missed due to sampling rate.

Of course if you are also logging knock timing retard and knock fuel, you will clearly see where they come in as a result of knock using either logger. But when running higher boost levels, I don’t even want the car to get to that point, so I like to catch the small knock noise before there is any real significant knock occurring, which is where the resolution of the internal logger really has an advantage.

[3r tech]

Well, thats fine if that works for you. However the way I tune is directly influenced by Jason Siebels, who basically designed the AEM. We both tune and log via the laptop, with the obvious exception of tuning during an event, when internal tuning is the only option.

As far as catching knock- real knock shows instantly as a huge spike, and I have found that when the sensitivity is turned up you catch every little engine noise and convince yourself a car is knocking when it isnt. On the NSX we can see the BOV activate via the knock sensor, so determining what is knock and what isnt is a LOT more important than logging at the highest speed.

[Renner]

Originally Posted by 3r tech

Well, thats fine if that works for you. However the way I tune is directly influenced by Jason Siebels, who basically designed the AEM. We both tune and log via the laptop, with the obvious exception of tuning during an event, when internal tuning is the only option.

As far as catching knock- real knock shows instantly as a huge spike, and I have found that when the sensitivity is turned up you catch every little engine noise and convince yourself a car is knocking when it isnt. On the NSX we can see the BOV activate via the knock sensor, so determining what is knock and what isnt is a LOT more important than logging at the highest speed.

This topic has been covered many times, and was discussed extensively by the AEM engineers in person when I was there being trained. You can also search on the forum if you want to see all of the discussions there have been about this. Glad you mentioned Jason Siebels, here is an exact quote written by him:

“The internal log can be ALOT faster than the PC log, so you might not get the resolution with the pc.

Jason.”

Which is exactly what I am talking about. The internal logger takes a while to download and requires that you shut the engine off, so maybe that is why Jason likes to primarily use the laptop logger instead, who knows. I do know that there are plenty of other well known tuners (is name dropping really necessary?) who have stated multiple times that if you really want to correctly calibrate/sample a knock sensor, you need to use the higher resolution available from the internal logger.

Some cars will not live through even one severe knock event. Stock internal cars with non-forged pistons running high boost at their power limit, and big-turbo rotary engines, come to mind. Yes a laptop log will see a major knock event, as I already stated. But seeing that major knock event after the fact may be too late. The point is to use the best resolution possible to see the onset of minor knock before a major knock event has the chance to do any damage.

This is not the same as “turning up the sensitivity” of the knock sensor. The knock sensor cal curve and setup is exactly the same for either case. And yes I know that a noisy valvetrain etc will wreak havoc on a knock sensor that is not setup properly, I have posted about that before. This has to do with resolution, a totally different parameter then sensitivity. Logging at the highest resolution is what allows you to more accurately determine what is true knock and what is false knock, enabling you to correctly determine the proper sensitivity settings.

For example, with poor resolution on the laptop logger, the knock waveform will sometimes be clipped. It doesn’t happen all the time, but it happens enough to be clearly noticeable when comparing an internal vs laptop log. So a clipped 2.5V peak may actually look like a 1.0V peak on a laptop log, which would be considered acceptable depending on the car of course. Well a 2.5V peak is still not severe by any means, but it would be a good indication that you should not run more aggressive timing at that point or you may see a more severe event, such as a 4.0V+ peak.

However, if you thought you were only seeing a 1.0V peak (because the laptop log had clipped it), and then you did bump the timing because you thought things were fine and dandy, you could then cause that nice 4.0V+ peak because you didn’t realize how close to a severe event you really were. Better to know before the fact then after the fact in my opinion...

I’m glad that you have gotten by with the laptop logger so far. But saying that the internal is useless just because you don’t use it is just not true. When sampling a knock sensor to determine "real" knock, more resolution is better because it doesn’t clip any waveforms, as has already been substantiated multiple times by various tuners who use the AEM.

[pengulns2001]

anyone on the AEM forums including the moderators will tell you if you want to see knock use the internal logger, its by far faster.... that being said i do all my tuning with laptop logging then internal log for knock, theres no reason not to do both

[pengulns2001]

anyone ever succefully clean their AEM wideband sensors, how did you do it? i have 3 of them and i need only 1 but id rather have them all working well, 1 of them had a bunch of oil burnt off from the turbo, 1 was run for a formula competition with no heater... the others fine i think but im wondering if can clean them with something or burn them with a blue torch etc

[pengulns2001]

wow if anything else can go wrong it will, i cant connect to my AEM i think my serial ports dead (would 440 volts do it?) so i need a USB to serial adapter even though i preach agains them im in a rush... anyone have one they use with success?