AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> - Page 115 - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

Import Power · 05-16-2008, 05:32 AM

Here is my personal daily driver car.
3SX Ross pistons
3SX rods
stock crank
stock heads
3SX Street grind cams with shims
3rd gen lifters
3SX Hi Rev Springs/retainers/keepers
Maximal solid motor mounts

RPM, knock RAW and knock VOLTS
to me it looks noisy, it's "quiet" up until 7K, we have seen this on other cars with similar setups, pretty quiet until 7K then it shoots up pretty quickly.

I have 6 Knock Cal runs, low boost low timing good gas, they all look identical to this run.

niterydr · 05-16-2008, 08:33 AM

Pickup delay comp sync'd correctly? That isn't right, I've never seen a forged piston solid motor mount car get THAT loud w/o there being an underlying motor problem (bad piston/cylinder wall clearance, beginning stages of pushing a headgasket, excessive rod bearing clearance (right before it starts making noise)...

What sort of ignition timing are you running? Have you tried a more stable leaded gasoline?
What are your IAT's like?
How knew is the motor assembly? If it is just "that loud" that is a bit scary as you won't beable to filter real knock compared to "noise".

:cry's and runs away:

Import Power · 05-16-2008, 09:16 AM

running 10psi
93 octane
IAT I think is around 70-90F
timing was about high teens I think, laptop not in front of me to be sure
motor is new

the noise above 7K scares me as well. Can't really filter out real noise with a noise signature like that.

niterydr · 05-16-2008, 10:15 AM

Triple check your base ignition is set right and your pickup delay comp isn't allowing drift.

The car should light off the spark with lower teens for timing without a missfire, try that. How are the plugs?

Import Power · 05-16-2008, 05:27 PM

I think I only took it to about 4K to make sure it didn't wonder. I will take it to 8K and see how she does.

mehlosTT · 05-16-2008, 05:34 PM

Just a thought on avoiding the high Knock noise if that is real Knock at 7K rpms,

Why not go a bit more boost, keep her at a true 11.2 or 11.3 ish AFR and less RPM ( max of 6500 rpms and see how that compares) If it keeps true Knock from coming on , then there is less issue trying to get rid of it once it starts and self perpetuates. I wonder how much gain is or is not greatly seen at the 7500 rpm range vs. just adding a bit more boost starting at where the car's peak torque range begins, or about? 4200 rpms and up?

Import Power · 05-16-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehlosTT

Just a thought on avoiding the high Knock noise if that is real Knock at 7K rpms,

Why not go a bit more boost, keep her at a true 11.2 or 11.3 ish AFR and less RPM ( max of 6500 rpms and see how that compares) If it keeps true Knock from coming on , then there is less issue trying to get rid of it once it starts and self perpetuates. I wonder how much gain is or is not greatly seen at the 7500 rpm range vs. just adding a bit more boost starting at where the car's peak torque range begins, or about? 4200 rpms and up?

with the street cams the power curve should not end up to peaky-high RPM. So I shouldn't have to rev too high.
She is "quiet" up to 7K. It's after that it gets crazy. Those runs were done at 11.2 AFR on straight 93 pump. Timing is so low that even at 14-15psi it's only making 400-415 AWHP, and those runs are quiet until 7K.

niterydr · 05-16-2008, 06:02 PM

Double check that ignition setup, check the plugs, it looks like 1 cylinder is having it taken to them. Either it is noise from mechanical or detonation..but you'll have be very careful with this one.

Some forged engines are loud. Is the knock sensor new? Torqued down to spec?
Any other problems with the car at all?
Have you tried leaded gasoline with an 11.5-12.0 afr? Something like Sunoco 110 or similar? That should light off relatively easily and is very stable, should let you know if you have a hot spot in a cylinder, a plug that hates you, a weak cylinder, or noise.

Import Power · 05-16-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr

Double check that ignition setup, check the plugs, it looks like 1 cylinder is having it taken to them. Either it is noise from mechanical or detonation..but you'll have be very careful with this one.

Some forged engines are loud. Is the knock sensor new? Torqued down to spec?
Any other problems with the car at all?
Have you tried leaded gasoline with an 11.5-12.0 afr? Something like Sunoco 110 or similar? That should light off relatively easily and is very stable, should let you know if you have a hot spot in a cylinder, a plug that hates you, a weak cylinder, or noise.

Thanks for the pointers.

I will double check the ignition up to 8K to ensure it stays on target.
I want to think it's just mechanical noise, not bad, just a noisy setup.
I had the block machined to 6 thou on the skirts.
Solid maximal mounts.
Brand new knock sensor torqued to spec.
new PTU and coils and wires
haven't pulled the plugs to inspect them yet.

I may get a chance to do some tuning/testing on it this weekend. I only work on it after work hours normally on a weekend so it's slow going.

on a side note, T4's engine signature was always pretty loud up top. I setup the knock cal using that info and after beating it to death and eventually lifting heads etc I never harmed a bearing, main or rod, using that high end high noise knock cal.
This is my street car though, my personal one, so I worry about it a bit more. I don't want to, nor have the time, to pull it apart any time soon so I need to be a little more cautious.

Import Power · 05-17-2008, 03:08 PM

Did some testing today.
I knew the plugs would be fouled a bit since they were the startup plugs and initial tuneing which I knew ran into the low 10 AFRs.

Replaced the plugs.

Checked ignition up to 8K and it sits right on 15 degrees as it should.

I was able to do some runs today. I just kept it under 7K.

Lots more work to do.
Only 440 AWHP uncorrected at 17psi pure 93 pump gas. Keeping it right at 11.4-11.5
I think I can get more.

before anyone screams our dyno reads high

We dyno'd a DSM last week, got 260 out of it, that same day he went to his work, across the street and put it on the DJ dyno that comes around every Wednesday night. No changes in anything, just drove from our dyno to the other across the street. he made 318.
We see this all the time. It's a shame that when we first got the dyno it was defaulted to read in the "DJ correction" which was set to add 12%.
Ever since then, unless a person is on our dyno, they think it reads high.

05-16-2008, 05:32 AM	#1141 (permalink)
Import Power Play that Funky Music Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Behind the Wheel Drives: Vicki Insane Trader Rating: (209)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Here is my personal daily driver car. 3SX Ross pistons 3SX rods stock crank stock heads 3SX Street grind cams with shims 3rd gen lifters 3SX Hi Rev Springs/retainers/keepers Maximal solid motor mounts RPM, knock RAW and knock VOLTS to me it looks noisy, it's "quiet" up until 7K, we have seen this on other cars with similar setups, pretty quiet until 7K then it shoots up pretty quickly. I have 6 Knock Cal runs, low boost low timing good gas, they all look identical to this run. __________________ AEM Factory Trained Tuner T4 AWD 9.21 @ 154.98 T2 FWD 10.19 @ 140.31 T4-159.23 MPH Ran on 6G72 3.1L! T4-995AWHP Uncorrected 6G72 3.0L 91VR4 Red-17Gs w/supporting mods-sold 93SLTT/T2 91VR4 Pearl White-sold 91VR4 Black-sold 92VR4 Sandstone-sold 94VR4 Green-sold 93VR4 Pearl White-sold 91VR4 Black-5027s-3.0L-Stock heads and Cams- 614AWHP 557AWTQ uncorrected 24psi Daily Driver 3SX Performance 3SX Performance Service Email

05-16-2008, 08:33 AM	#1142 (permalink)
niterydr New project in the works Join Date: May 2003 Location: Maple Grove, MN Drives: Tractionless wonder Trader Rating: (33)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Pickup delay comp sync'd correctly? That isn't right, I've never seen a forged piston solid motor mount car get THAT loud w/o there being an underlying motor problem (bad piston/cylinder wall clearance, beginning stages of pushing a headgasket, excessive rod bearing clearance (right before it starts making noise)... What sort of ignition timing are you running? Have you tried a more stable leaded gasoline? What are your IAT's like? How knew is the motor assembly? If it is just "that loud" that is a bit scary as you won't beable to filter real knock compared to "noise". :cry's and runs away: __________________ -Josh mildly modified blue 93 rt/tt-SOLD 3780lbs, pump gas 3/s. 127.08mph-92 octane. I still tune cars! new project, T.B.A

05-16-2008, 09:16 AM	#1143 (permalink)
Import Power Play that Funky Music Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Behind the Wheel Drives: Vicki Insane Trader Rating: (209)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> running 10psi 93 octane IAT I think is around 70-90F timing was about high teens I think, laptop not in front of me to be sure motor is new the noise above 7K scares me as well. Can't really filter out real noise with a noise signature like that. Last edited by Import Power : 05-16-2008 at 09:21 AM.

05-16-2008, 10:15 AM	#1144 (permalink)
niterydr New project in the works Join Date: May 2003 Location: Maple Grove, MN Drives: Tractionless wonder Trader Rating: (33)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Triple check your base ignition is set right and your pickup delay comp isn't allowing drift. The car should light off the spark with lower teens for timing without a missfire, try that. How are the plugs?

05-16-2008, 05:27 PM	#1145 (permalink)
Import Power Play that Funky Music Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Behind the Wheel Drives: Vicki Insane Trader Rating: (209)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> I think I only took it to about 4K to make sure it didn't wonder. I will take it to 8K and see how she does.

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05-16-2008, 05:34 PM	#1146 (permalink)
mehlosTT 220K club Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Twin Cities_MN, USA Drives: AWD or nothing. Trader Rating: (8)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Just a thought on avoiding the high Knock noise if that is real Knock at 7K rpms, Why not go a bit more boost, keep her at a true 11.2 or 11.3 ish AFR and less RPM ( max of 6500 rpms and see how that compares) If it keeps true Knock from coming on , then there is less issue trying to get rid of it once it starts and self perpetuates. I wonder how much gain is or is not greatly seen at the 7500 rpm range vs. just adding a bit more boost starting at where the car's peak torque range begins, or about? 4200 rpms and up? __________________ '92 R/T TT 236 K mileage club AEM EMS, Twin TD-O5 MHI EVO 16G, Electronics: AEM ems, FJO dual WBO2, GaugeTech AEM ems display, custom made EL type main gauge faces, [/size]

05-16-2008, 06:02 PM	#1148 (permalink)
niterydr New project in the works Join Date: May 2003 Location: Maple Grove, MN Drives: Tractionless wonder Trader Rating: (33)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Double check that ignition setup, check the plugs, it looks like 1 cylinder is having it taken to them. Either it is noise from mechanical or detonation..but you'll have be very careful with this one. Some forged engines are loud. Is the knock sensor new? Torqued down to spec? Any other problems with the car at all? Have you tried leaded gasoline with an 11.5-12.0 afr? Something like Sunoco 110 or similar? That should light off relatively easily and is very stable, should let you know if you have a hot spot in a cylinder, a plug that hates you, a weak cylinder, or noise.

05-17-2008, 03:08 PM	#1150 (permalink)
Import Power Play that Funky Music Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Behind the Wheel Drives: Vicki Insane Trader Rating: (209)	Re: AEM Ultimate Resource Thread>>>> Did some testing today. I knew the plugs would be fouled a bit since they were the startup plugs and initial tuneing which I knew ran into the low 10 AFRs. Replaced the plugs. Checked ignition up to 8K and it sits right on 15 degrees as it should. I was able to do some runs today. I just kept it under 7K. Lots more work to do. Only 440 AWHP uncorrected at 17psi pure 93 pump gas. Keeping it right at 11.4-11.5 I think I can get more. before anyone screams our dyno reads high We dyno'd a DSM last week, got 260 out of it, that same day he went to his work, across the street and put it on the DJ dyno that comes around every Wednesday night. No changes in anything, just drove from our dyno to the other across the street. he made 318. We see this all the time. It's a shame that when we first got the dyno it was defaulted to read in the "DJ correction" which was set to add 12%. Ever since then, unless a person is on our dyno, they think it reads high.