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Old 11-24-2012, 01:38 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Why don't you just use a VR4 resistor pack? I use high resistance injectors and that is what they suggest or resistors. I don't know the reason why but it seems like nobody has a desire to run low inpedence.

UPGRADE YOUR FIRMWARE before getting too hopped up on getting it running. You will end up wasting time.
Get tuner studio. I was stubborn and stuck with old stuff for awhile. Heck I had my megasquirt on the shelf for 3 years and never actually made a pass at the track with real tuning capability. Very short sighted of myself wanting to avoid a little trouble that ends up making things better.
Now, if I find out that in the last few months they changed everything to % then Ack. You sure its not some setting you have that is "off"? Most people don't like KPA but after hassling around with it and making my own conversion charts for quick referencing, I understand why its better. I am lazy enough that I used one of the worthless RPM columns (1000 rpms) to convert KPA to PSI numbers (since I won't need the boosted load cells at 1000 rpms) at sea level so I could quick reference in my head what the KPA meant. I also set my stuff up to lean burn while cruising.

Is your transmission setup documented on the RWD6g72 forum? I didn't look recently to see if those Ford C4 bellhousings made it into casting.
I want to throw the same thing you are doing into my Starlet but I am worried a powerglide's long gears would be better for such a light vehicle. Way more work when the c4 stuff is so far along. I have also considered looking for a 2.5:1 Ford 9" and only using 1st and 2nd on the c4.
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Last edited by Ondontii; 11-24-2012 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:32 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

can't wait to see this put some good numbers down.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:44 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondontii View Post
Why don't you just use a VR4 resistor pack? I use high resistance injectors and that is what they suggest or resistors. I don't know the reason why but it seems like nobody has a desire to run low inpedence.

UPGRADE YOUR FIRMWARE before getting too hopped up on getting it running. You will end up wasting time.
Get tuner studio. I was stubborn and stuck with old stuff for awhile. Heck I had my megasquirt on the shelf for 3 years and never actually made a pass at the track with real tuning capability. Very short sighted of myself wanting to avoid a little trouble that ends up making things better.
Now, if I find out that in the last few months they changed everything to % then Ack. You sure its not some setting you have that is "off"? Most people don't like KPA but after hassling around with it and making my own conversion charts for quick referencing, I understand why its better. I am lazy enough that I used one of the worthless RPM columns (1000 rpms) to convert KPA to PSI numbers (since I won't need the boosted load cells at 1000 rpms) at sea level so I could quick reference in my head what the KPA meant. I also set my stuff up to lean burn while cruising.

Is your transmission setup documented on the RWD6g72 forum? I didn't look recently to see if those Ford C4 bellhousings made it into casting.
I want to throw the same thing you are doing into my Starlet but I am worried a powerglide's long gears would be better for such a light vehicle. Way more work when the c4 stuff is so far along. I have also considered looking for a 2.5:1 Ford 9" and only using 1st and 2nd on the c4.
Thanks Brent,

I've just downloaded the latest firmware and will be putting that on shortly, great suggestions. Also just purchased the full version of Tunerstudios, so hopefully that autotune feature will make my life easy as well.

From the DIYautotune guys, no need for a resistor pack. Just a couple settings in the injector characteristics and the MSII is designed to run low impedance injectors without a resistor pack. Works for me.

Havent been over to 6g72rwd yet, will check it out and start a thread there as well. I've got threads here, at MSExtra, and a couple starion boards as of right now.

But thanks for the info on the % and KPA, etc... I'll do some more reading up on that. I'm still a little foggy on how all that conversion stuff works, so I may still be quite a bit off somewhere.
Still just trying to figure out this:
Quote:
Note that the scale in MS2-Extra is in %, so 100% = atmosphere (100KPa) in MAP mode, or 100% TPS in Alpha-N, etc.
So obviously a boosted engine will go over 100%.
If 100% is atmosphere, then how much would say 15 lbs of boost be? It wouldnt be 15 X that would it? Theres no way that scale would be that extreme... I read that 1 atmosphere is 14.7 psi, but just trying to figure out the scale... I am just stuck in KPA land where 20 psi ended up being around 200 kpa or something like that, just wondering how different that % should be. I do think the latest MS is all percentage, from what I've read at least.

Last edited by Turbo_Addict; 11-24-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:01 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=101&t=24152

% = KPA if you are using speed density. I wouldn't actually follow the advice about using percentage of barometic pressure. It shows % regardless of how you have things set up. kpa seems pretty standard for aftermarket ems out there. If they really want it to be % that is another great confusing mental conversion to make.

Is the bellhousing from Bill? I mostly saw his stuff on the RWD forum. I just saw the build thread but no castings at that point. He was working out the starter issues.

Emailed you a conversion chart I made that helps. Better then online converters.

Last edited by Ondontii; 11-25-2012 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:45 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Great info as always, thanks again Brent! I got your conversion chart, very cool - much appreciated!

Yes, that is a Bill Hincher bell... this is the second one I've been a 'test bed' for with him. First was the R154 Supra trans for the G54B starion motor. That worked excellent as well. This is the first C4 for a 6G72, and it performs flawlessly! Starter works great, no issues whatsoever. It's from a Subaru, and it's reverse mounted so that helped a ton with fitment, because if it was front mounted, it'd probably be hitting the downpipe on the passenger side.

Anyhow, here are my new tables via Tunerstudios. Upgraded to the latest MS2/Extra firmware without issues (thank goodness - that's always a little bit of a pucker factor for me).

Changed everything to Speed Density too...

VE Table


Timing Table


AFR Table
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Old 11-25-2012, 01:00 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Wow just wow.... Totally cool man!!! In for updates!
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Old 11-25-2012, 04:41 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Cool build! I hate to be Debbie Downer but that timing map is a little off.

Gotta get that high load stuff pulled back until you get it on a dyno. Wouldn't want to see you blow this cool beast up. Timing should be the advanced at high rpm and low load. It should decrease both as load increases and at low rpm....just a big diagonal slope; top left corner is in the basement and bottom right is thru the roof.

Here's my map:


Granted..this is set up for E85 so you might need 3 more degrees at the torque peak above 25 psi if you're running C16/Q16 but you get the jist.

What's funny is I've always had the intention of leaning on it harder but I haven't done it yet. So far that conservative map went 147 mph and put down almost 900 AWHP. Always better to let the boost do the talking and leave the timing for last. It's just WAY harder on the motor when you go looking for power by advancing the timing.
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Last edited by Trevor; 11-25-2012 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 11-25-2012, 06:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Thanks Trevor, thats the kind of info I was hoping to get! It's been a while since I last tuned anything with Megasquirt, and the timing setup I had on the original starion motor was crazy simple, and I didn't have that much experience in it. I'll definitely look at what you posted and make some major corrections. Thanks a ton for that, may have saved me from a catastrophic dyno pull!

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Old 11-25-2012, 10:36 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Subscribed. Awesome build! I've always loved those cars, the original 3000GT...lol. It's cool to see you give it the power it deserved.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:09 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: 6G72 TT in 87 Starion - trying to start finally

Trevor,

Thanks again for the table!! I've made the adjustments - this should be a lot safer starting point now

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