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So a customer drops his car off for an AEM tune

9K views 68 replies 29 participants last post by  Import Power 
#1 ·
Another shop had "tuned" it but it was running very poorly and could not get over 16psi with out breaking up and just over all running bad. Bad idle that is high, then low, then surges up and down, etc etc.

I will spend some time on it later, building a new map from scratch of course, I never trust another shops map and won't build off of it cause you never know what small detail you will miss on one of the buried graphs etc. But like looking into what was "tuned" at this point and why it may be running poorly.

But here is what I found in 5 minutes looking at it.

92 RTTT
Forged rods and pistons
Forged crank
JDPC TD05 kit
MHI EVOIIIs
Walbro pump
680 PTE
AEM Meth kit
boostaspark
etc

I like to shoot for pump gas (on TD05) 20 degrees at redline at 20psi. It's a good benchmark to kinda aim for.

This AEM was setup with 9 degrees at 20psi at redline. Wow, that's low.

Then I thought, Let me check the base timing. This needs to be set before anything else to ensure when the AEM puts out 15 degrees, the engine will actually be at 15 degrees.

Sure enough, when the car is at idle and the AEM is putting out 15 degrees, the actual mechanical timing on the car is.......5

So at 20psi at redline the car is somewhere around 0 to -1 degrees.

Knock control is set maxed out at 1.4 volts. Very conservative.
Oh wait, if it were turned on. Yep, it's unchecked, it's off.

Looked around for a few more minutes and found some other funny things. Can't wait to dig in and tune her up!

-Chris
 
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#2 ·
sub'd for results!
 
#3 ·
I bet the owner will be blown away when it buries him in the seat. That's quite a mod list to be running so shitty!
 
#12 ·
I think most places think "tuning" is downloading a file from superchips and plugging in a programmer.
 
#8 ·
Is there any car that would like -1 degrees at 20psi at redline?

It's not my place to divulge where it was tuned at. If he owner wants to post that, he can.

-Chris
 
#18 ·
That's what I was wondering, how can someone who tunes for a living know less than me? I've never tuned anything! Surely there must be some car that his tune would work for! (probably not)
 
#11 ·
(customer) hahahahaha so, although i prefer not to divulge the shop, i have to repeat the above: "DONT LET PEOPLE NOT TRAINED ON 3000GT's TOUCH TUNING" Although many places say they can tune it, there is a big difference between tuning by ear and surgically operating the tune to specifics of that platform. The shop that did the tune is great at AEM tuning... just on hondas and acuras. very important lesson to learn...

On another note, thanks to Chris Hill for all the info and advice i was able to get in 5 minutes while dropping the car off that would probably have cost me hundreds had I done it the way i used to... using forums! Buy, install, find issues, repeat... Guys, knowledge and opinions are different... need advice? ask the people you would trust with your car!

PSS: Chris' pricing on service is PHENOMINAL! If u havent gotten something done at ninja performance, I would advise it! I stopped turning to 3sx and was forced to do most mechanical/ upgrade work on my own car because of pricing. Chris is so affordable, I doubt I'd bother spending days figuring out anything else when I know it could be done right the first time for a fraction of what i was quoted at 3sx. SUPPORT SMALL BUSINESS!

Sorry, rant over :) Just amazed at how happy I am with the service.
 
#16 ·
haha been kinda flying low... u bought something from me or me from you a while back... we met up at best buy in brier creek but it was brief. Havent been to the local gatherigs yet, but im def going to haave to make an appearance :) Also, im going to have to talk to u about doing the angry eyes on the 2nd gen hood since im converting to 99 front with glass headlights like yours!
 
#19 ·
OK, so you are a honda shop and don't know tuning a 3S (still dyno would show it needs more timing)

The base ECU timing was never set. At AEM 15 degrees the actual timing on the engine is 5. That isn't knowing 3S tuning, that is not knowing AEM EMS tuning. This is one of the first things you do.

Had to rewire the AEM WB as it was not hooked to the AEM EMS, although O2#1 input wire on the plug was cut within 1"of the plug and stripped bare just sitting there.

So got that done and a few other safety things like turning on Knock control etc. Had to lean out cruise and richen up in the positive load area to get it safe. Nothing else was done. No timing etc. Just to see what was going on.

Did a few base pulls watching boost, AFR, and knock volts. Got log, put it into virtual dyno. 14psi she is making 204HP. On MHI EVOIIIs

Time to eat lunch and get to tuning.

-Chris
 

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#22 ·
This IS a before run. All I did was make sure the AFR wasn't dangerous and turned on knock control and fix the WB.

I haven't started tuning. About to finish lunch and get to it.

-Chris
 
#25 ·
Apparently you don't know that the 300HP (320HP 2nd gen) rating is not the wheels where the dyno is showing 250 at the wheels.
 
#23 ·
Ok, so I started fresh.
Funny, the old map was setup so that the max raw number on the fuel table was 65. So even adding or subtracting 1 is a large percentage.

Setup basics and a basic conservative timing map still probably 5 degrees back. And on the rich side.

One outing with a few pulls. Yeah, she fees stronger. Still breaks up real bad when it hits 12-14psi. He has NGK copper 7's supposed to be gapped to 28 but I will pull and check, and a kennebell boostaspark. May remove that and see how it runs.

This was a first shot in the dark and set up rich for safety, missed it a bit as it's running 10.1 in boost. But that's easily fixed. Cruised a while and got cruise and accel/decel pretty good.

So even running 10.1 AFR (LOL) as compared to the 11.5-11.9 it was running, same boost, it picked up 50hp and 79 ft lbs tq.

-Chris
 

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#29 ·
Then I thought, Let me check the base timing. This needs to be set before anything else to ensure when the AEM puts out 15 degrees, the engine will actually be at 15 degrees.

-Chris
Thank you for reminder Chris. I have set my AEM ignition 6 years ago and it is probably a good time to check if the timing still matches.
Thanks for shipping pump and injectors really quick. Iam planning to install and run E85 real soon. Any AEM maps you can share? It would be helpfull to go through other people maps just to see if something stands out. I had opened my map so many times that I stopped noticing issues. Recently I found i have no IAT/Fuel trim setup. ;( Thats why my cold starts were always a pain.
 
#31 ·
You are welcome, thanks for the business!

As for the maps to go to E85, you will need about 35% more fuel volume so you can just add that to the fuel table and see where you sit, and you can add a few more degrees timing.

As for cold starts, IAT isn't as touchy as the coolant enrichment maps. You should be adding fuel when it's cold and it should gradually go to 0 add when it gets to about 140F-150F

IAT only add a few percentage points to fuel and drops to 0 around 50F

-Chris
 
#30 ·
Hey Chris, what city are you in? If not too far from the border, I may drive down to have you tweak my car one day.
 
#32 ·
Sorry, I am in South Carolina, Pretty far south.

-Chris
 
#33 ·
Today was fix it day.

Lower plenum had 3 stripped holes, so replaced with a good clean used lower plenum and all 3 new OEM gaskets.

Pulled spark plugs to replace with a new set, to find oil on the top side of most of them, spark plug gaskets leaking. So all new OEM valve cover gaskets and spark plug gaskets. AFTER I cleaned off all the orange RTV off of everything.

Replaced a stripped T bolt clamp.

Need to figure a fix for the front turbo, the filter is mounted right to it and it smashes the vacuum hose for the wastegate, totally clamping it shut. No Bueno.

Tomorrow I need to hotwire the fuel pump. Currently it has sorta a hotwire to it but it's single strand house wire. Then going to bypass the Kenne Belle boostaspark for now as it also is wired in with house wiring.

More tuning and pulls after that is all sorted.

-Chris
 
#36 ·
AFTER I cleaned off all the orange RTV off of everything.
Some days I wish that RTV was a controlled substance, like R12 that could only be sold to people who know how to use it!

I guess stupid mechanics are everywhere. Your description of all the stupid stuff you had to do fits what I end up having to do to cars when I get them.

Glad to hear that nighmare is starting to shape up.

-SP
 
#34 ·
Wow what a mess!
 
#37 ·
Yeah, orange RTV everywhere. The ONLY place a 6G72 DOHC should get sealant is the oil pan. And I like to put a little (NOT GOOPED ON) around the cam caps and seals. But that is IT. This car had RTV on the valve cover gaskets and spark plug gaskets...ON BOTH SIDES of the gaskets. Lots of cleanup of the covers and the heads. New OEM gaskets on!

-Chris
 
#38 ·
Today was more fix it before real tuning happens.

Front turbo wastegate vacuum nipple/hose was being 100% clamped shut by the mounted to turbo filter. And the WG arm was not clamping the WG shut.

So I shimmed the WG so it would keep the WG closed and find the WG itself is bent/crushed (not the rod, the valve section) So when I tested the WGs with compressed air to ensure activation and travel, it would go half way then jamb open, would not self return.

So, I was able to use my press to get it straight. Shimmed it. and slight reposition to keep the vac nipple from being pinched closed by the filter. It's all good now.

On to the fuel pump hotwire. Since I noticed house wire was used for the hotwire kit and the stock resistor relay was not bypassed I needed to correct it.

Bypassed the relay. On to the fuel sender plug to....WHAT? The house wire run to "hotwire" the pump was scotch locked to the fuel pump power wire. And not cut in, The stock wire was still intact, the house wire was just spliced in with it.

So new Ninja Performance hot wire kit installed.

Tomorrow will be tuning time.

-Chris
 
#39 · (Edited)
It is unfortunate that their are few establishments like NP to get our cars worked on. Most of us have to resort to doing the work ourselves (I do not trust any shops near me to work on my vehicles) and wind up saddled with a steep learning curve to get things done. It is a healthy experience for some of us and it is something I personally enjoy. But, I am fortunate in that I have a garage, air compressor, and most of the tools necessary to get the job done. It may take people like me a little longer and we may stumble along the way, but it is reassuring to know that there are members on this forum like you who are willing to share their experience and do all they can to help. I really do appreciate you taking time to post the process on this forum. It is a learning tool for many of us and I for one, find it invaluable.

Thank you!!!!

P.S. It is one thing for a shop to not know the intricacies of our cars, it is quite another to do sloppy\incomplete work or totally ignore the service manual guidelines. RTV???? That is just archaic!!!!!
 
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