The Philosophy side of modifying cars.

[andyvr4]

Originally Posted by JRink

Threads like this should be stickied so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle with all the other worthless threads going around.

You and Alan think a like. He stickied the first post from this thread on the top of the new owners area .

[bjmsam]

Excellent discussion. I bought my pristine '94 TT in early '97 with just over 30k miles on the clock, added 47 hp with only a FIPK and a SAVC-R a few months later and thoroughly enjoyed it as a fun daily driver with zero downtime for the next ten years on two continents. A few minor repairs have been necessary along the way (e.g.- wheel bearing, struts, clutch), and I splurged on a BBK for the track, but I generally didn't upgrade anything before the stock part wore out (e.g.- downpipe and catback finally rusted through recently). Last year I brought IDCs down with a Denso FP, AFPR, black tops and a 5-knob SAFC and datalogged obsessively to make sure everything remained bulletproof before I replace the aging TD04-9Bs with a pair of unmolested, factory fresh MHI TD04L-13Gs. Consensus on 3SI is that such a moderate upgrade is a waste and that I should go larger, but a conservative approach has served me well and allowed more time in the cockpit than in the engine bay. These cars are really fun to drive!

[xteekayx]

Well siad... EVERYTHING you said is TRUE!... but there is always stupid mofos out there to challange you because you have a slower daily driver then the car they do 15miles a week in :\.... go figure... so people don't understand difference between having alot of usable power and being confortable and a car that should not belong on the street at the first place...

If you wanna build the highest HP car in town... might as well strip it to nothing put lexan windows in it and buy a trailer...

The rage of competition is fucken rediculus between people... they don't understand that everybody is different and have different prespective and view a definition of a street car differently then someone else... just too many ignorant people there...

and please... to add, just like Eugine said, if you DO NOT have the money.. don't bother competing...


just like someone here said on the board long time ago... poor people have no right to go fast... and i am one of them ....

[Mr.3000]

I can't believe that I missed this thread before. Dude what ur saying is exactly what everybody needs to hear. It isn't about hp numbers. It is about building a car that is safe and reliable and won't get you or somebody else killed. A friend of a friend had a LS SC300, he threw a 2JZ with some mods in and put down over 500rwhp. IIRC, the first week he got it back from the shop, he took his brother out for a ride, lost control on the highway and flew off the road. His brother didn't make it.....To have your brother robbed from you because you had to play the numbers game is a very big price to have to pay. I give you some serious props for posting this.

[John Monnin]

Good Post Dirty Russian Mechanic

I made a post about the importance of having project goals and budgets 2 years ago.

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=299857

I wonder if I followed my own advice.... Lets See!

John Monnin's Stealth project car Mission Statement:

To modify my 92 Stealth TT to Maximize the amount of fun it is to drive on the street. (I got close)

I will do this with the following design goals.

Performance Goals:
a. 11 second ¼ mile on race gas (I believe I could have with better tuning)
b. Mid 12 ¼ mile time on pump gas (nope too high of compression)
c. No brake fade at Gingerman (Never ran it on road course)
d. Ability to do AWD burnouts (OH YEAH! THEY WERE FUN!)

Usage: The car will be used in the following manor
a. 95% of time it will be driven on street (TRUE)
b. 2-3 times a year it will be drag raced (I actually dragged it more )
c. 2-3 times a year it will be road coursed (Nope)
d. 2-3 times a year it will be autocrossed (Nope)
e. I will drive the car approximately 4 days a week (TRUE)
f. My wife will drive the car approximately 2 days a week (She wanted too but I nver had it tuned well enough)

Engine:
a. Engine must be able to make significant power on pump gas (Only if you count E85)
b. Significant Low end power must not be sacrificed over stock Stealth. Loss of low end power from bigger turbos must be recaptured though more displacement or other means. (OH YEAH! I LOVED THE LOW END GRUNT!)
c. Turbos should be able to hold 20 psi to redline for drag use (Nope)
d. Engine management system should be simple enough that it does not require constant tweaking, set and forget (Nope)

Suspension:
a. Stiffer suspension for better track launches and better road course performance. ( I changed my mind I prefer soft suspension)
b. Ride quality is still important, Keep ECS for now (TRUE)
c. Aftermarket wheels must be lighter than stock and have clearance for bigger brakes (I never bought a set but this is still important to me)

Body:
a. Body should look nice but it should be rough enough that I am not afraid to drive it on the street. (I actually would have prefered a better body)
b. Body changes should be focused on Weight loss (TRUE)

Gauges:
a. Number of Gages should be minimized to only necessary monitoring of engine (TRUE)
b. Peak hold/Warn gauges should be used as much as affordable (VERY TRUE)

Brakes:
a. Bigger is better, (Nope I stopped driving road courses and stock brakes are awesome on the street)
b. ABS must be kept (VERY TRUE)


Comfort
a. Power Steering must be kept (TRUE)
b. A/C must be functional (VERY TRUE)
c. Stereo should be functional but not excessive (VERY TRUE)
d. Noise level must be kept to a reasonable level (I now want a car almost as quiet as stock)

Interior, seats and safety
a. Air bag will be functional (VERY TRUE)
b. Stock seats must be kept, unless really comfortable race seats can be found (VERY TRUE)
c. Roll bar is only acceptable if it does not interfere with daily driving and is not a risk to head injury if a helmet is not worn (ROLL CAGES SUCK ON STREET CARS)
d. Interior should look just nice enough that people do not comment negatively on its condition
----------------


My biggest mistake was not putting a higher value on engine management & compression ratio.
My 2nd biggest mistake was not realizing how much I like a quiet stock ride.
Mt 3rd biggest mistake was not starting with a nicer condition car, I really wanted a 3000GT in any color other than Red or green... and I bought a green Stealth...

DISCLAIMER: The Opinions expressed here are not the opinions of 3SI and its sponsors

[travs92vr4]

Very true Eugene! Words of wisdom. For all that don't listen, or don't want to listen, truely havn't experienced raw power before! They'll get it. Sooner or later! Just like we did.

We have to meet up. I'll pm ya!
Travis

[zeitgeist lies]

My neighbor took me out in his nearly 1000hp mustang when I was younger and it scared the crap out of me. I would refuse to drive anything over 600 or 650hp.

[RussianVR-4]

Originally Posted by travs92vr4

Very true Eugene! Words of wisdom. For all that don't listen, or don't want to listen, truely havn't experienced raw power before! They'll get it. Sooner or later! Just like we did.

We have to meet up. I'll pm ya!
Travis

definately let me know buddy!

[gs1000kat]

This is the first I have seen this thread. I didn;t all of your first post, but I what I did read, I qagree with 100%. I have a 92 and 99 VR4. Nothing crazy on either. 99 is stock and 92 is BPU with 450 CC inj, and SAFC II. Never did run quite the same. Last night I put stock injectors and pulled the SAFC. I have been recently realizing how enjoyable my stock 99 VR4 is. There is definitely something to be said for reliability. Everyone wants to be the fastest, but realistic goals anbd sticking with it is going to save you tons of cash. Hopefully some of these kids will heed your advice.

[inperfectdarkness]

thanks for the great post eugene!

i'm kind of glad i haven't had money to "upgrade" my ride (until now). years of being on here, watching developments progress, and learning from everyone's experiences...and i'm finally confidant in the feasability of what i want.

500awhp is my precise goal. i want to do it with a 74 block, td05's, and (i hope) 91 octane. i want to run 275's on all 4 corners to maximize grip. and i want to keep atx, because it IS supposed to be a daily drivable car. (nothing against mtx...but i hate using them in traffic).

i've learned that it's probably better if i start with higher displacement--so i can net a flatter power curve w/ boost at the power level i want.

i've learned that higher displacement allows me to have more headroom with boost--and that (for me) it's better to turn up the boost another psi rather than make the exhaust flow more.

i've learned that i DON'T want an exhaust louder than stock & i DON'T want solid motor mounts. i know for certain that i don't want the ride any "harsher" than stock.

if i never take it down a 1/4, if i never track it...it won't be the end of the world. i want to build it solid enough to handle 1500 hp, and set it to run 500 all year long. reliably. without having to constantly fiddle with a boost controller, datalogger, etc.

eugene, you and others like you have paved the way--and i thank you for your insight and wisdom.

-thadd.