'Forum Wars' Dynamic racing , SCE??????

[bluemax_1]

Originally Posted by Erron Spalsbury

Thanks for the kind words Max. But, mine is NOT an IPS single. I built the kit entirely myself, even the manifolds. The turbo came from airflo.com. I've never bought anything at IPS.

Whoops, my mistake. I remembered you installing the single, guess I forgot the details. How's the powerband on the new setup?




Another thing to keep in mind folks is something I mentioned briefly (of course it's still moot until we get an invite) and that's entering/nominating running cars vs. cars that are in the 'build' phase.

One thing that you tend to see on a fairly frequent basis are cars being purpose-built for a competition by shops or individuals that will only really be tested AT the competition, and the rate of failure of these builds is statistically quite high unless the shop is used to building deadline competition cars.

The thing is, these types of builds are untested and since they're usually purpose-built to produce far more power or to run under much greater stress than they previously were, no one knows where the failure points may lie until the car is actually put to the test (eg. Matt's 3/S record build breaking axles. Unknown quantity till tested. Also check out the Russian 1285awhp car build. Failure at competition because it wasn't run prior to competition). These purpose-built cars tend to have many things modified at the same time and it's hard to tell if and how well everything will hold together under the extreme pressures in competition.

Erron's car on the other hand HAS competed on roadcourses regularly and his single setup is running (not sure of the state of tune). Phil's car has also been tested and run at NG08. If we're to nominate cars, I'd much rather nominate a car that has been tested and running under those kinds of conditions for a while and has had the bugs worked out as opposed to a potential super-duper build that will maybe be completed right before the competition (especially something like a roadcourse car where you'll need a little time to fine tune the suspension setup, since changes in weight and weight bias and even tires all necessitate changes in the suspension to get the most out of the car).


Max

[Erron Spalsbury]

Originally Posted by bluemax_1

Whoops, my mistake. I remembered you installing the single, guess I forgot the details. How's the powerband on the new setup?



Erron's car on the other hand HAS competed on roadcourses regularly and his single setup is running (not sure of the state of tune). Phil's car has also been tested and run at NG08. If we're to nominate cars, I'd much rather nominate a car that has been tested and running under those kinds of conditions for a while and has had the bugs worked out as opposed to a potential super-duper build that will maybe be completed right before the competition (especially something like a roadcourse car where you'll need a little time to fine tune the suspension setup, since changes in weight and weight bias and even tires all necessitate changes in the suspension to get the most out of the car).


Max

The video of the drag run in my sig was as of a couple weeks ago. The power band is certainly there. My tuning guy, Jake Lemkuhl, has does wonders with the AEM. The studder box anti-lag is tuned to perfection. So launching wouldn't be problem at all. For the road course, the rally type anti-lag would be enabled as well. We also haven't even implemented the "no lift to shift" option. That should help out quite a bit. The only changes that will be done between now and the Pinks All Out event in August will be the addition of the A1000 and -10 lines. (just so I can run more than 20psi on e85) This will be their first event at Denver's elevation.

The suspension setup is unchanged, as well as the tires and wheels.

Erron S.
P.S. I just re-read my other post and feel bad as it came accross wrong IMO. I havn't bought from IPS, but I certainly would. I don't want the IPS guys to think I was bashing them. They appear to be a group of good guys.

[bluemax_1]

Erron, the vid says antilag but I didn't hear the antilag? I heard a stutter box setting (launch boost), which was the popping as you were getting ready to launch but not antilag? I sometimes get confused with how folks use the terms. To me, antilag = the system they use in rallying to keep turbos spooled when off-throttle so there's no lag when they get back on the throttle. Stutter box = the pre-launch spool for dragracing. To me, antilag is the one that comes in when you let off the throttle.

ALS Anti Lag System is when the ECU keeps sending fuel when you lift off throttle and the ignition is retarded such that the fuel is still combusting/burning when the exhaust valves open (usually accompanied by some kind of throttle bypass). The still expanding gas keeps the turbos spooled while throttle is not being applied (and it's usually characterized by the really loud popping and sometimes flames out the tailpipe whenever the driver lifts off the throttle). The point is to have NO boost lag between shifts and to keep the turbos spooled while decelerating into a turn so there's no lag on throttle reapplication at the exit. You can hear it in rallying (sounds like firecrackers):

YouTube - Subaru GC8 Mountain Pass Fun with Anti-Lag

YouTube - Evo 6 TME Anti-lag

YouTube - Wrc Germany 2007 Evo 9

YouTube - EVO Anti Lag at Cadwell Park

It also works for roadcourses or anything where you want to keep the turbos spooled when you lift off the throttle and need to reapply it again without lag.

I've driven a car with this kind of antilag before (I used to amateur rally back in the day). Funnest car I've ever driven was a friend's Evo 5 with a WRC spec suspension (Moton or Proflex, can't remember) and it had an antilag system on it (Motec ECU). Amazing handling and power delivery.


Max

[Devilmightcry]

Originally Posted by bluemax_1

IIRC, there were some mildly modded Evos on that trip and one of them made comments on the Evo forums after the trip about the 2 red 3/S's that were outrunning everyone else, one of which passed him like he was standing still on the straights (Jack T.) and another that he had no chance of keeping up with through the turns (Phil).Max

lol. imagin combining Jack T's car and Phil's car. talk about unbeatable monster for road racing. what turbos Jack T's car had?

[bluemax_1]

Originally Posted by Devilmightcry

lol. imagin combining Jack T's car and Phil's car. talk about unbeatable monster for road racing. what turbos Jack T's car had?

Which is why I'm wondering if Phil has installed the TD05 kit yet. With that kit, he should be able to put out some good power for roadcourses (since no one runs a drag tune on the roadcourse).

IIRC, Jack T. was still running his AGP SS44's at the time. Not sure what tune or boost pressure though. His max HP tune is well in the 700+awhp region. You can search for the dyno charts thread. His dyno is on there, but that's NOT the tune he runs on roadcourses.


Max

[v413nc3]

The ALS that Erron is using is a Drag race style. Instead of just setting a lower rev limiter for launch control (2-step/stutter box) it also cuts ignition heavily after a few seconds of use. You can definately hear the difference on the turbo side when it's popping and the turbo is producing maybe a PSI or two worth of boost then jumps up heavily. It's an AEM style. It's not a hardware solution to ALS.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Originally Posted by v413nc3

The ALS that Erron is using is a Drag race style. Instead of just setting a lower rev limiter for launch control (2-step/stutter box) it also cuts ignition heavily after a few seconds of use. You can definately hear the difference on the turbo side when it's popping and the turbo is producing maybe a PSI or two worth of boost then jumps up heavily. It's an AEM style. It's not a hardware solution to ALS.

Exactly right, thanks Jake.

Max, what you'll hear in the video is when the stutterbox hits 6500, the anti-lag will enable. (this is a standard feature on the AEM unit) When boost reaches our target number, 9psi in this case, it toggles back and forth between the ALS and stutter box keeping boost steady at 9psi.I could only achieve about 2psi on the stutterbox alone, with the ALS enabled, it would go to whatever we programmed it to. In this case, 9psi was more than enough wheel spin.

The type of antilag you're familiar with is also a feature on the AEM, which they call "Rally Style ALS". Thats the one that we will also enable when we get to the road course. That way the spool time or loss of spool will be minimized between shifts. Great stuff.

Are you running an AEM by chance Max? If not, you should really get one. You would absolutly love it. It has so many of the old GEMS features, plus the useablilty is significantly increased.

Erron S.

[jay04]

no lift to shift

The new turbo cobalt ss has that feature. I wonder how much time it actually shaves off between using it and not using it.

PS: I have seen a video of your car drag racing with the anti-lag feature enabled. Car sounds sweet at the tree.

[v413nc3]

Originally Posted by jay04

The new turbo cobalt ss has that feature. I wonder how much time it actually shaves off between using it and not using it.

PS: I have seen a video of your car drag racing with the anti-lag feature enabled. Car sounds sweet at the tree.

On a large turbo, a lot. You never need to let off, so you never blow off. Keeping boost pressure up and still being able to shift (rev limitation) makes a HUGE difference. Another would be a slight power cut with a dogbox.

[bluemax_1]

Originally Posted by Erron Spalsbury

The type of antilag you're familiar with is also a feature on the AEM, which they call "Rally Style ALS". Thats the one that we will also enable when we get to the road course. That way the spool time or loss of spool will be minimized between shifts. Great stuff.

Are you running an AEM by chance Max? If not, you should really get one. You would absolutly love it. It has so many of the old GEMS features, plus the useablilty is significantly increased.

Erron S.

Nope, no AEM here. Maybe someday.


Max