Do Not Tune With Safcii??

[Dj4play]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

holy shit i missed this post!! low timing does NOT melt pistons hahaha it makes the egt read high because the flame front is out the exhaust making the sensor read high...meanwhile the cylinder temps themselves fall as does the power. did the 2 best tuners in the world forget to let you know that?

now as far as you being here to help, i havnt seen a helpful post yet... lets see, Sin coulnt get tuned because the tuner was worried about high timing due to the negative afc correction. so, i tell him to turn the cas back so it will cancel out the added timing of the afc.. GOLDEN INFORMATION WHICH IS FREE HERE ON 3SI.
you say how id get owned on a tuning forum lol and how theres this whole math to changing the timing.. TIMING LIGHT ANYONE?

what happened to the free advice? what happened to the free mods? why are the simple things always overlooked. thats my point Dennis

ps egt readings are for diesels. low egts and hight timing=melt down. high egt with low timing makes exhaust glow and power low with NO engine damage.

The shop that was he took the car was trying to upsale him on equipment. While you are giving him advice on cancelling out the timing correction of the afc and larger injectors, and while your method IS FREE, is not the best way to adjust timing. Its like saying arc2 is better than aem. While arc 2 is tried and true and gives results, aem is better because you have control over numbers very precisely. I never say your way didnt work. But you must admit there are better ways (while costing money) and more precise ways of doing it. I understand your methodoly of going about things. The least expensive way that works. there is nothing wrong with that.

[Import Power]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

holy shit i missed this post!! low timing does NOT melt pistons hahaha it makes the egt read high because the flame front is out the exhaust making the sensor read high...meanwhile the cylinder temps themselves fall as does the power. did the 2 best tuners in the world forget to let you know that?

now as far as you being here to help, i havnt seen a helpful post yet... lets see, Sin coulnt get tuned because the tuner was worried about high timing due to the negative afc correction. so, i tell him to turn the cas back so it will cancel out the added timing of the afc.. GOLDEN INFORMATION WHICH IS FREE HERE ON 3SI.
you say how id get owned on a tuning forum lol and how theres this whole math to changing the timing.. TIMING LIGHT ANYONE?

what happened to the free advice? what happened to the free mods? why are the simple things always overlooked. thats my point Dennis

ps egt readings are for diesels. low egts and hight timing=melt down. high egt with low timing makes exhaust glow and power low with NO engine damage.

+1 Rep Given
BAM...you now have another shiny green box (like you care LOL )

[ray pampena]

Originally Posted by Import Power

+1 Rep Given
BAM...you now have another shiny green box (like you care LOL )

hahaa nice! i miss 3si sometimes lol

[lawdogg]

Ray - back on topic - what if you can not adjust your base timing? Tuning with an SAFC on a 2g VR-4?

[ray pampena]

i honestly never have a problem with that when you have reasonable sized injectors. heres why, the car has a conservative timing map to begin with. the you add some timing with your injector and fuel controller... which ends up helping power wise.

if you are having a problem and need to move it back, a timing control is then needed or you can slot the trigger plate holes using a degree wheel and move it back 3-5 degrees.

it all depends on what injectors you are running. the trick is, only run what you need to get the power you want and timing wont be a problem

[lawdogg]

Thanks!

If only there was a way to tell if knock is coming from timing advance or something else ...

[ray pampena]

Originally Posted by lawdogg

Thanks!

If only there was a way to tell if knock is coming from timing advance or something else ...

there is. if you suspect knock, add race gas and leave everything else alone. if it stays the same, its not real spark knock.

[ray pampena]

also, while im on the information kick and i also cant stop laughing about the egt, timing , and melted pistons comment.. let me elaborate some on that


when you have X amount of fuel, X amount of air(boost or not) you have X amount of potential energy. if the timing is say 15 deg and boost is 20psi.. and we will give it an AF of 11.8:1. lets say the egt reads 850deg c.

now, make the timing 12 and leave all else alone, and you will see an increase of egts. this is because more of that given energy described above is wasted into the exhaust instead of being used in the combustion chamber.

now run 20 deg timing. you will see lower egts from the same reasons. now the energy is going into pushing down the piston and making more power. you will have a lower reading like this. the piston can only take so much of this heat which creates knock and can also melt a piston.

if you monitor boost, af, and knock.. there is no reason to look at egt. if you have X boost, X timing, X knock and all of those are good.. it doesnt matter if your egt gauge reads 2000 deg. if all items are the same day in and day out and one day you have a problem.. you will see it in af or overboosting before you would ever need to rely on egt readings.

to complicate this even more. the aspect ratio of exhaust pressure vs boost changes with all turbo designs, header designs, intercooling, pipe sizes etc etc etc.
if you have a 2:1 ratio, then you will have a MUCH higher reading than someone running 1.3:1. BOTH of those cars can have the same cylinder temp but WAAAY different egts do to the compression of already heated exhaust gas.

i hope this helps you out Dennis and Sin. this is more valuable info that people seem to not know.

i dont claim to know everything. i have barely have a 10th grade education, never went to AEM school or any tuning school. i learned on my own. i did not have the "best tuners in the world" teach me.. whatever that means.

everyone can learn something from someone..including me

[AdamVR4]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

also, while im on the information kick and i also cant stop laughing about the egt, timing , and melted pistons comment.. let me elaborate some on that


when you have X amount of fuel, X amount of air(boost or not) you have X amount of potential energy. if the timing is say 15 deg and boost is 20psi.. and we will give it an AF of 11.8:1. lets say the egt reads 850deg c.

now, make the timing 12 and leave all else alone, and you will see an increase of egts. this is because more of that given energy described above is wasted into the exhaust instead of being used in the combustion chamber.

now run 20 deg timing. you will see lower egts from the same reasons. now the energy is going into pushing down the piston and making more power. you will have a lower reading like this. the piston can only take so much of this heat which creates knock and can also melt a piston.

if you monitor boost, af, and knock.. there is no reason to look at egt. if you have X boost, X timing, X knock and all of those are good.. it doesnt matter if your egt gauge reads 2000 deg. if all items are the same day in and day out and one day you have a problem.. you will see it in af or overboosting before you would ever need to rely on egt readings.

to complicate this even more. the aspect ratio of exhaust pressure vs boost changes with all turbo designs, header designs, intercooling, pipe sizes etc etc etc.
if you have a 2:1 ratio, then you will have a MUCH higher reading than someone running 1.3:1. BOTH of those cars can have the same cylinder temp but WAAAY different egts do to the compression of already heated exhaust gas.

i hope this helps you out Dennis and Sin. this is more valuable info that people seem to not know.

i dont claim to know everything. i have barely have a 10th grade education, never went to AEM school or any tuning school. i learned on my own. i did not have the "best tuners in the world" teach me.. whatever that means.

everyone can learn something from someone..including me

Absolutely agreed. I determined a long time ago that my EGT gauge was worthless with regard to tuning. I'd never really put a lot of thought into why my EGT's went up with reduced timing, but it surely did. That was around the same time I stopped running bullshit timing levels...

If you know what you're doing, there's no need to bottom out people's timing maps to make safe power. I guess that works when you're not willing to put any real amount of time into their cars,,,,,,,,,,asdf,,, though.

Ray, for the record, we're covering heat of combustion in thermal fluid systems right now. What you said makes perfect sense.

[SnakeSkinner]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

holy shit i missed this post!! low timing does NOT melt pistons hahaha it makes the egt read high because the flame front is out the exhaust making the sensor read high...meanwhile the cylinder temps themselves fall as does the power.

100% correct allot of people have a hard time understanding that one.