Do Not Tune With Safcii??

[ray pampena]

hey Dennis, i know all of a sudden your a pro tuner... but why over complicate things always?

tell me.. why would it not be good to adjust timing with a cas? do you really care where the numbers are? the stock logging numbers are bullshit anyway (you knew that right?) so if you NEED to know your numbers, do a pull with the timing light hooked up and see where you stand. the idea is to have as much timing as you can before knock.. i dont care if thats 2 deg or 50 deg.

you dont need timing control on a cas car with this guys mods lol.

its like taking a chevy V8 with FAST that has a internal trigger and telling someone that turning the distributer will NOT do the same thing as making the change with the ecu. its FUEL and SPARK not goddamn rocket science.

unless ofcourse it has ross pistons...then you cant EVER tune it because it will have so much noise.. like mine, Matt Ms, Leonels, 3sx cars and 99% of ALL the fast cars out there... then again, what do i know.. i work for toyota

[Dj4play]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

hey Dennis, i know all of a sudden your a pro tuner... but why over complicate things always?

tell me.. why would it not be good to adjust timing with a cas? do you really care where the numbers are? the stock logging numbers are bullshit anyway (you knew that right?) so if you NEED to know your numbers, do a pull with the timing light hooked up and see where you stand. the idea is to have as much timing as you can before knock.. i dont care if thats 2 deg or 50 deg.

you dont need timing control on a cas car with this guys mods lol.

its like taking a chevy V8 with FAST that has a internal trigger and telling someone that turning the distributer will NOT do the same thing as making the change with the ecu. its FUEL and SPARK not goddamn rocket science.

unless ofcourse it has ross pistons...then you cant EVER tune it because it will have so much noise.. like mine, Matt Ms, Leonels, 3sx cars and 99% of ALL the fast cars out there... then again, what do i know.. i work for toyota

The ross piston information was hard data collected from customers cars from all over the country. They made the MOST noise of any other aftermarket piston ive looked at. Ross pistons are also th heaviest compared to other aftermarket pistons. Ross pistons are also the CHEAPEST TO OBTAIN. Stating facts. not knocking the company or the pistons. I never said that HE MUST HAVE TIMING CONTROL on those mods. I said to run more than a certain amount a boost timing control is needed, especially on so cal fuel, which you are lucky enough to not have to tune on. Im not overcomplicating things for people. Im merely explaining what things like "all you need is a 12mm wrench for timing control" mean. Im overly cautious when i tune and that is why i havent blown a car tuning to this day. No need to make subtle jabs at me ray. My information was not misleading and not incorrect. Nor did i ever question your ability. The one thing i did say is moving the cam angle sensor around to adjust timing is not a good idea and people agreed with that. Im answering peoples questions. The factory ecu timing numbers are CLOSE if your running the appropriate base timing. that is all

[ray pampena]

throwing a spear at a tank is what you said for manual timing control which is crazy talk. how fast are all these cars running and where is all this tuning data coming from anyway? how many cars have you tuned?? i dont care if God himself is training you on engine management.. experience and numbers followed by positive results followed by track times is where its at.

my AFC and the 12MM wrench got me 11.00 on 15Gs.. have you beaten that yet? that was a real daily driver. maybe i needed 3 timing control units with a poptart toaster also?

the ross piston thing is funny.. ive had guys that i sold engines and pistons to who call me and tell me GTPRO said i cant run those pistons! i need a refund! meanwhile all the fast/powerful cars run them

thats funny because i havent seen all your giant dyno numbers and track times yet. the best way to get a good name out there is to get some results instead of posting in every thread on 3si.

btw, ive tuned with ross shelf stocks and had no problems and the pistons i sell.. although machined by ross is my own design with my own skirt which was built around my own ring pack. so you can let my customers know that while you are on the phone with them.

[Dj4play]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

throwing a spear at a tank is what you said for manual timing control which is crazy talk. how fast are all these cars running and where is all this tuning data coming from anyway? how many cars have you tuned?? i dont care if God himself is training you on engine management.. experience and numbers followed by positive results followed by track times is where its at.

my AFC and the 12MM wrench got me 11.00 on 15Gs.. have you beaten that yet? that was a real daily driver. maybe i needed 3 timing control units with a poptart toaster also?

the ross piston thing is funny.. ive had guys that i sold engines and pistons to who call me and tell me GTPRO said i cant run those pistons! i need a refund! meanwhile all the fast/powerful cars run them

thats funny because i havent seen all your giant dyno numbers and track times yet. the best way to get a good name out there is to get some results instead of posting in every thread on 3si.

btw, ive tuned with ross shelf stocks and had no problems and the pistons i sell.. although machined by ross is my own design with my own skirt which was built around my own ring pack. so you can let my customers know that while you are on the phone with them.

Read carefully before you start ranting. The cars tuned in socal are usually show cars that never hit the track or daily drivers. You notice no one from cali ever posts track times? Thats for a reason ray. Because its nearly impossible to get on a 1/4 miles track out here. the magazines rent out the tracks so often for testing , all the test and tune days are taken and on the days they arent theres 1000 cars there wanting to run. So i have or my customers have to run fast 1/4 mile times to have a good tune or for our motors to be top notch ? that stupid and childish ray. ALSO, the ross piston statement was "off the shelf 99809 ross pistons" read before you try and bust my balls. You have your own pistons made ,,,great. Im sure they work for you. As i havent had to retune one of your cars i cant say anything about YOUR ross pistons. BUT, i have had to retune cars from other shops that run ross pistons on their builds and they appear to be the off shelf. My WHOLE gripe on the ross pistons (which was not a gripe, merely saying the off shelf 99809 pistons usually create noise that factory ecu pics up as knock) this has been proven in a few cases here at the shop. I have also used ross pistons without issues to, but more often times than not, had issues. GTPRO was dealing with ross MANY yrs before you had a shop and dropped them due to issues with them. ALl these engines being assembled By FAMOUS engine machine shop and assemblers,,,,so please no "you dont know how to build an engine crack". My posts are here to help and educate people who need help. I know you ran 11.0 on 15gs ,,and i think thats great. BUT there are better more precise ways of controlling timing than moving the damned cas sensor. I also said that doing that isnt wrong,,,but it is NOT IDEAL. Maybe for someone who has the experience as you or i do, btu to tell people who dont know what they are doing to move theyre cas sensor to increase or decrease timing is foolish in my opinion. I have nothing but respect for you ray, we simply have different approaches and methods to achieving goals.

PS:so to answer the question of this thread,,,YES, you can tune with SAFC easily on that setup to a certain amount of boost. More boost can be achieved be retarding timing and boosting until it knocks. Car will make more power on more boost than it will on more timing.

[AdamVR4]

Horrible wall of text,,,,,,,,,, What the hell did you just say? I know you told Ray to READ,,, it, but if I were him, I wouldn't. It just gave me a head,,ACHE.

You ARE aware those are fucking consecutive commas, right?

[Dark-Hawk]

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

Horrible wall of text,,,,,,,,,, What the hell did you just say? I know you told Ray to READ,,, it, but if I were him, I wouldn't. It just gave me a head,,ACHE.

You ARE aware those are fucking consecutive commas, right?

Get the fuck out, everyone knows the proper way to write out an ellipses is via commas. You and your God damn logic disgusts me.

[Dj4play]

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

Horrible wall of text,,,,,,,,,, What the hell did you just say? I know you told Ray to READ,,, it, but if I were him, I wouldn't. It just gave me a head,,ACHE.

You ARE aware those are fucking consecutive commas, right?

as usual. offering nothing but drama and nothing constructive. The information i posted is correct and is to help a member of 3si. the information you posted does nothing to add drama to this thread. As usual, thanks for adding another useless, childish post to a thread with someone trying to find answers to a question.

[My_Car_Goes_Rar]

Originally Posted by AdamVR4

Horrible wall of text,,,,,,,,,, What the hell did you just say? I know you told Ray to READ,,, it, but if I were him, I wouldn't. It just gave me a head,,ACHE.

You ARE aware those are fucking consecutive commas, right?

Originally Posted by Dark-Hawk

Get the fuck out, everyone knows the proper way to write out an ellipses is via commas. You and your God damn logic disgusts me.

LOL...

[ray pampena]

Originally Posted by Dj4play

I think i said that. ALSO REMEMBER!!!! If you run to LOW of timing under high load, egts go through the roof and pistons like to melt Knowing is half the battle. (plagurized from gi joe)

holy shit i missed this post!! low timing does NOT melt pistons hahaha it makes the egt read high because the flame front is out the exhaust making the sensor read high...meanwhile the cylinder temps themselves fall as does the power. did the 2 best tuners in the world forget to let you know that?

now as far as you being here to help, i havnt seen a helpful post yet... lets see, Sin coulnt get tuned because the tuner was worried about high timing due to the negative afc correction. so, i tell him to turn the cas back so it will cancel out the added timing of the afc.. GOLDEN INFORMATION WHICH IS FREE HERE ON 3SI.
you say how id get owned on a tuning forum lol and how theres this whole math to changing the timing.. TIMING LIGHT ANYONE?

what happened to the free advice? what happened to the free mods? why are the simple things always overlooked. thats my point Dennis

ps egt readings are for diesels. low egts and hight timing=melt down. high egt with low timing makes exhaust glow and power low with NO engine damage.

[superinflamo]

Originally Posted by ray pampena

holy shit i missed this post!! low timing does NOT melt pistons hahaha it makes the egt read high because the flame front is out the exhaust making the sensor read high...meanwhile the cylinder temps themselves fall as does the power. did the 2 best tuners in the world forget to let you know that?

now as far as you being here to help, i havnt seen a helpful post yet... lets see, Sin coulnt get tuned because the tuner was worried about high timing due to the negative afc correction. so, i tell him to turn the cas back so it will cancel out the added timing of the afc.. GOLDEN INFORMATION WHICH IS FREE HERE ON 3SI.
you say how id get owned on a tuning forum lol and how theres this whole math to changing the timing.. TIMING LIGHT ANYONE?

what happened to the free advice? what happened to the free mods? why are the simple things always overlooked. thats my point Dennis

ps egt readings are for diesels. low egts and hight timing=melt down. high egt with low timing makes exhaust glow and power low with NO engine damage.

i swear i get hard after reading ray's posts
just thought everyone should know that....