Havent they promised it to you like 5 times now?

 

Uhhh... yeah :hammer:

 

So far, the dates I've gotten from Apex have been either trend dates or "we hope to have a fix by XXXXX". Unfortunately, I haven't gotten a commit date from them. I get that commit dates are hard with unknown-complexity bugs, but still... this is not going well.

I'm really hoping it's not a hardware problem (meaning a firmware reflash won't fix it), as that would mean that they have to do a redesign and actually replace all the units in the field. Though it'd be the right thing to do in that case, it would be crazy expensive and cumbersome. That would likely mean even more delays Other than resource/staffing issues, that's one of the few things I can think of that would result in all these delays.

So, in the mean time, all I can say is that I'll keep pushing for a firmware update, and we should all hope that it's not a hardware problem. This is definitely getting a little silly with the firmware update taking so long. I'm not very happy with Apex.

 

A firmware update shouldn't take that long, especially for something like this. My guess is it's a hardware problem.

 

I got a email about upgrading to a standalone from Apexi.

Didn't even know they did standalones. With the way this is going why would I want another apexi product?

There goes the summer, so I don't know when I will get a good enough break to do the wideband, install the meth kit, and retune it all again.

 

I've lost my hope and purchased used SACF-2 off the Craigslist. I was naive enough to think the connectors from SAFC would be identical to AFC-Neo... which certainly didn't turn out to be the case. They also changed color of the wires, so now I will have to do some detective work and solder the SAFC to AFC-Neo connector.
BTW: does anyone know how to map the wires from SAFC to AFC based on the color?

As far as AFC-Neo goes: do you feel this issue will ever get resolved? I can think of several options:
(1) Drive with SAFC, keeping AFC in the box... and hope it would be re-programed one day
(2) Sell AFC on eBay to minimize my losses
(3) Take Apexi to the small claims court and ask to reimburse me for the full price I paid for my AFC
(4) File a class action lawsuit on behalf of all frustrated AFC users with non-working Karman function

Any thoughts?

 

(4) File a class action lawsuit on behalf of all frustrated AFC users with non-working Karman function

I like this action. Surely if a "international" class action lawsuit was raised Apexi would do something as they'd stand to lose millions.

Peter_D (Brisbane. Australia)

 

I like 3 or 4 as another week goes by with nothing.

Fact is, it doesn't work, and they are not doing enough or anything about it, so I want my money back so I can get something that does work.

Its August, they have been working on a solution for the whole summer (May), and they have been getting reports of a problem for over a year. Whatever the problem, I am starting to think they can't fix it, and its time to cut some losses and move on to something else.

 

I spent about an hour on the phone with one of the head guys for Apex's US operations on Friday. He thoroughly agrees that this is taking waaaaay too long for a firmware fix. Since he's not a hardware guy, I gave him a quick overview of how a device like the Neo is probably designed, and that should give him the background to ask a few probing questions to the engineers in Japan today or tomorrow.

I know the folks at the US office are tired of being yelled at by angry customers, and they're tired of not having anything meaningful to tell those customers. From what I can tell, there will be resolution this week, one way or another. What's being discussed sounds reasonably fair to me, even if one of the options under discussion doesn't involve having a working device (or at least not soon). I still want a working device as much as the rest of us, but if they can't get a working device in a reasonable time, Apex needs to do the right thing for its customers. My understanding is that the deadline for a fix has been set as the end of this week.


P.S. there is truth to the "trade-in" offer for upgrading to Apex's stand-alone product... unfortunately, our platform isn't supported, so the offer only applies to the Eclipse and Evo guys

 

P.S. there is truth to the "trade-in" offer for upgrading to Apex's stand-alone product... unfortunately, our platform isn't supported, so the offer only applies to the Eclipse and Evo guys

wow.. that sucks for us...

 

screw the trade in... I hope they either fix it or give me my money back.

 

yeah like I would take another apexi product?

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, ????????????

 

I had the neo on my 02 civic to adjust air fuel while on N2O. The civic doesn't use the karman sensor. I got it tuned and dynod by a professional and blew my motor 1 1/2 months later. Is it possible there could be other issues with it that apexi doesn't know or isn't willing to admit? If it has been out this long and they are just now getting to it what else could have "slipped" by them? Last question, with the bug you've encountered what are the possible outcomes? ( could you blow a motor due to this problem? )

 

I had the neo on my 02 civic to adjust air fuel while on N2O. The civic doesn't use the karman sensor. I got it tuned and dynod by a professional and blew my motor 1 1/2 months later. Is it possible there could be other issues with it that apexi doesn't know or isn't willing to admit?

Possible? Certainly. Proven? Not that I know of. Everything I've heard from Apex is that the root-cause of this issue is contained to the Karman feature.

Last question, with the bug you've encountered what are the possible outcomes? ( could you blow a motor due to this problem? )

The problem results in an unpredictable airflow signal output from the Neo. The short answer is that yes, if you weren't watching other operating parameters (knock, AFR, timing, etc.) while using the current Neo, you could do all kinds of damage to a motor. However, if the person doing the tuning is doing it safely and knows what they're doing, the possibility of catastrophic engine damage is lessened considerably. It's pretty much as simple as "if you see knock or wacky AFRs, don't do that". As you can see from my logs, I did quite a few WOT runs at various boost levels in debugging the problem. Since I was tuning conservatively with a rich AFR, my engine is still in the same number of pieces as Mitsu designed it.

 

What are our options, besides used SAFC-II? I saw the prices of SAFC skyrocketed on eBay - they now cost more then AFC-Neo in most cases. The one I purchased had a dead screen... in addition there are rumors of "fake SAFC" flying around. Do we have any reasonably priced alternatives?

 

I have the Emanage Blue and I love it. It does timing control as well. The only downsides are it's more expensive than the SAFC/NEO and you need a laptop or Greddy EO-1 boost controller to make changes.

 

The problem results in an unpredictable airflow signal output from the Neo. The short answer is that yes, if you weren't watching other operating parameters (knock, AFR, timing, etc.) while using the current Neo, you could do all kinds of damage to a motor. However, if the person doing the tuning is doing it safely and knows what they're doing, the possibility of catastrophic engine damage is lessened considerably. It's pretty much as simple as "if you see knock or wacky AFRs, don't do that". As you can see from my logs, I did quite a few WOT runs at various boost levels in debugging the problem. Since I was tuning conservatively with a rich AFR, my engine is still in the same number of pieces as Mitsu designed it.[/QUOTE]

When tunning the civic it was tuned conservative as to not blow the motor. But your telling me this only related to the karman sensor. I had some issues at about 4000 rpm the af ratio was leaning out and had to be richer. When the engine blew this was the range it was in. I'm confused as to why this is only related to the karman sensor and not all types of air sensors.

 

When tunning the civic it was tuned conservative as to not blow the motor. But your telling me this only related to the karman sensor. I had some issues at about 4000 rpm the af ratio was leaning out and had to be richer. When the engine blew this was the range it was in. I'm confused as to why this is only related to the karman sensor and not all types of air sensors.

It's specifically related to the Karman senor input because the Karman sensors generate a frequency-based signal, while many other sensors generate a voltage-based signal. This specific problem is related to the frequency signal processing of the AFC Neo, so it does not apply to voltage-based signals. Further, I confirmed through experimentation that the problem is RPM-independent.

That's not to say there couldn't be a problem with other modes of Neo operation. However the confirmed problem and the topic of this thread is the Karman mode of operation of the Neo.

 

I am getting upset in my AFC Neo repair cause in Dec. 2006 I crashed into a curb. While my car was getting fixed at repair shop, someone stole my SAFC-II my EBC and TT and gauges plus Sub amp and GSX wing. It took 7months of me fighting to get all my parts replaced at bodyshops cost.

The car wasn't done by the time I had to move, Travlers Insruance suck! Lots of parts not listed on paper work, wrong amount paid for items. All and all I had all $2000 in recipets for my stuff.

I moved to FL, flew back month later got my eclipse back, drove it 755miles (I'm crazy, done the drive 3 times now, I like going 22hrs straight..) in one day, blew water pump, got stuck in Watlerboro SC for 5 days while the guy puts my balance shaft out of time, knocks oil filter off and starter ground. I gotta go to the shop and help him do it... Never mind I packed cloths for 3 day trip, not a week. Running out of money..

I now live full time in florida, been here for a year now and I get my TOB done, hope to drive my car here in FL more then the 100miles so far...And when I reinstalled my parts (yes, insurance scam on my car, sorry I'll install my own parts and not trust my car at your shop anymore) in NJ to drive to FL I was like WTF I can't beat a 07 GT Mustang, somethings wrong, and I been dealing with the AFC Neo since.

I just want to drive my car, I can boost 23psi, but I run 02 .96-.98 with -38% above 3000k to get it to pull, if not the car is turd and slow as crap..

Idk, I'm getting fustrated and I aint got money to buy other products, its plain and simple, I can't use Apexi's product to run my car, I depend on it with larger fuel pump and injectors I'm not going to go thru the trouble of stock Injectors and reconnecting my Karmen wire, I spend $290 and 2 hrs of install I should get what I paid for.

SOrry to write so much, I need to vent at someone..
12psi aint fun sorry!

I not calling everyday, but since I submitted my paperwork a month ago, I have yet to get an update, so I started looking into class action lawsuit..

From what I have read, we as a "Community" need to find a lawyer interested in this case, so I guess maybe we should start looking for someone who see's profit or justice in are problems with Apexi.

Everyone at Apexi USA is very nice, and they are careful in wording what they say. Japan end of the buisness needs to step up I belive

Pz

 

youre still tuning with narrowband?

 

Yea, I can tune a nice smooth powerband, but I have yet to buy a wideband.. I'm trying to but I'm jobless at this time...

I have spent good money on my car, I do feel a good wideband and FPR would do it good!

pz

 

It is Friday afternoon... are we expecting any word from Apexi?

 

No firmware as of Friday evening, which is my most recent update from Apex. Don't know if they're working on it over the weekend, but their office in Japan is closed on Aug10 for a religious holiday (don't know how long it will last). From what I understand, the USA office will begin handing out refunds for US customers starting Monday (assuming no firmware shows up this weekend).

I have no details on how the refund process will work, but I imagine you'll need to ship your Neo to them and then get a check. I don't know if they'll require a receipt or not. Probably the best thing to do is call them on Monday if you're interested in a refund.


Boooooo on no firmware

 

Ugh. What a nightmare.

 

Does ALL Mitsubishi's use the Karman signal??? I've got a Colt/Mirage 1800 GSR which I want to mount a turbokit on...

 

I talked to Apexi today on the phone... Darren (x107) told me that they have a working version of the software fix running on an EVO9 that seems to of fixed the Karman problem.. However the Japan office is saying it will be another week possibly because he's trying to smooth out some of the Decelleration air flow values before its ready..
Refunds will be issued to those who dont want to wait for the Firmware update, and Apexi is im the process of drafting up with thier Lawyer the Legal documents for this to happen. Apexi will post when this process os ready should you decide to go for the refund. It does sound however that the fix is pretty close at this point.

 

Here is what I've got today from Apexi:

We have just received confirmation from Japan that the final revised firmware will be available for reflash sometime next week as they are currently working out all the little bugs and glitches that arise when altering a software program. Your email has been added to our customer re-flash response list so once the revised firmware is available, you will be notified immediately with further details.

Program update: Our electronics engineer in Japan has successfully tested the latest software version on a Mitsubishi Evolution 9 this past weekend. Apex Integration USA is expecting to have an E.T.A. of the final version next week.

Thank you for your patience in this matter as we are trying to provide you with the best software to date.

 

Sounds like progress... and the details give it some credibility. I'm glad to hear that they're likely doing some extensive testing prior to release - hopefully that means that there won't be a "round 2" of the fix.

Apparently much of the Japanese workforce has this week off from work for a holiday - and the lone Neo engineer is spending the whole week working on it. If he wasn't the person who originally wrote the code, I kinda feel bad for him. But then I remember I have a $400 paperweight until he's done

 

well its nice to hear that they told Nick 083 the same as they told me... I like that kind of consistency, and probably means were going to be good to go next week =)

 

i didn't read everything, except the last few posts, but...

so when they get it fix, then will there be new units, or is this just a software update?

thanks,
t

 

Probably both

as in once they have a working version the newer versions will probably have the update and the ones that don't and need it will have to be sent in for the reflash.

 

Lets hope they finish it soon... My g/f just wrecked my 03' Mistubishi Outlander... Acc. belt rib broke off, she was going around a turn, she ended up hitting a cement pole car is a 100% loss I got some good parts tho...
Insurance company said Oil Pan was damaged so I could have lost the motor, they decided it was $8k in damage.. I really Really wanted to steal the 2.4L crank out of it!

O well I need my GSX back now!

 

wow, 7 days with no updates, thats a bad sign.

 

^^ yea im waitin too

 

I called Apexi and was told "a few weeks" once again. They offered a refund though. You need to provide a copy of the receipt for AFC NEO and a copy of the insurance / registration for the car, so they can confirm it is a Karman car.

 

^^
so i guess the people who bought theirs used/ or dont have a copy of reciept are kinda screwed??

 

Latest word is that more onion peeling has been done to reveal yet another layer of problems. Current trend is late next week.

For those not willing to wait, Apex Integration (Apex's US division) is offering refunds as mentioned above.

Summary:

If you have a Karman car and a Neo, you have two options
1) Return your Neo to Apex Integration and get a refund
2) Wait for a fix. Could be next week, could be next month. Hopefully not next year.