Apex AFC Neo: Confirmed Programming Bug - Karman Function Doesn't Work

[7eddiedoowop7]

Originally Posted by TTDEVIL

Got mine back. Haven't had much of a chance to go out and tune, but the car definitely shows more stable numbers on the wideband.

I'd like to see some logs please. Logs of the air sensor frequency Hz, A/F ratio, engine rpm simultaneously . I think, though not 100%, a good look at these under various conditions will show if the Neo is behaving as it should. We need to get more than one person too, and if the results show it, we can put this topic to rest.

If any of the info I requested (ie: logs) is available anywhere, please share the link(s).

[TTDEVIL]

Originally Posted by 7eddiedoowop7

I'd like to see some logs please. Logs of the air sensor frequency Hz, A/F ratio, engine rpm simultaneously . I think, though not 100%, a good look at these under various conditions will show if the Neo is behaving as it should. We need to get more than one person too, and if the results show it, we can put this topic to rest.

If any of the info I requested (ie: logs) is available anywhere, please share the link(s).

Sorry, don't have a logger (obd2 anyway) and the car is up for sale so I won't be pursuing any further testing.

[q2418130103p]

Originally Posted by 7eddiedoowop7

I was thinking that too. BUT, with a non-karman & translator type setup (which is all of them unless using standalone ecu), wouldn't the neo be seeing the amplitude-translated-to-frequency based (karman) signal from the tranlator? Wouldn't the neo think it's still hooked up to a karman type sensor? I mean, you'd want your crude corrections BEFORE the fine adjustments, I'd think. It's hard to believe that the neo would do better still seeing a karman-type signal.

If an amplitude based (non-karman) air-sensor output was fed directly to the afc, what does the afc output (and can you change it?) and will the ecu recognize it? That is the question. This sounds like a topic for Jeff L. It's all very scientific

IMHO, I am not 100% aware of all the issues, but:

I believe Hz in Hz out, amplitude in ampltiude out.

If in your translator setup you fed the neo a Hz based signal then you would still have the karman problem.

[erikgross]

Originally Posted by 7eddiedoowop7

I'd like to see some logs please. Logs of the air sensor frequency Hz, A/F ratio, engine rpm simultaneously . I think, though not 100%, a good look at these under various conditions will show if the Neo is behaving as it should.

I can do you one better... looking at the inputs to the ECU along with WBO2 and other engine output data would only be observing the Neo's functionality indirectly. To really know that it's doing its job, you need to compare its INPUT and OUTPUT airflow signals across a variety of RPM points. Then you can look at the the airflow data, compare it with the expected correction factors, and then determine if it's doing its job.

Right now, I have my AFC Neo set to (-20%) across the board for the High Throttle map, which makes looking at the data easy. The following is a graph of Output airflow as a function of Input airflow. The red line represents the *ideal* output signal and the blue "X"es on the graph represent actual data from my car. Keep in mind that the output of the OEM MAF is a very jagged and rapidly-changing signal, so one should not expect the Neo output to be EXACTLY on the red line.

The chart below shows the Neo is behaving properly. I can add to the data below by saying that I've done some experimentation with changing the correction factors at various RPM points, and I've seen corresponding changes in my AFR, as viewed from a WBO2 setup. Given that this data is taken from the exact same car that exhibited the original problem (all I did was disconnect the old Neo from its harness and plug in the new one - ECU wiring remained untouched), this is conclusive evidence (to me) that the problem is resolved. Granted, I haven't tried correction factors much lower than -23 or much higher than -16, but in those ranges, things seem to work just fine. Thus, I believe they have the algorithm correct now.

... and just for thoroughness, the second picture shows a few WOT runs with AFR, IDC, MAP, and both input/output Karman signals.

[7eddiedoowop7]

Wow, thank you, that was even better I'm really impressed.

[7eddiedoowop7]

Originally Posted by q2418130103p

IMHO, I am not 100% aware of all the issues, but:

I believe Hz in Hz out, amplitude in ampltiude out.

If in your translator setup you fed the neo a Hz based signal then you would still have the karman problem.

Yup, that's what I mean. I don't think using an MAF and translator with the buggy version of the neo would help, being it's Karman and all. Makes sense.

[stanfordjv]

where do you get the info of where to send it to and the info to find out for sure if you have a good neo or not. My safc2 quit working so i had to hurry and buy something and then i got a neo on short notice and then saw that there were problems with them. what do i do? help help help

[DSM Performance]

New version are corrected!

Eric

[drmbldr]

Latest victum, snidelywhiplash. Bad Karmen signal and tac reading. Cylinder 3 now has 60-80 compression. Atleast it didn't take the heads with it.