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Old 11-25-2012, 09:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

I bought my first VR4 earlier this year and soon after spun a bearing. I decided to do a built short block while I have it apart and am in the process of doing that. Its a 91 and already had Phantoms on it so I plan to have those rebuilt and see how far I can push them. I'm also wanting to stick with some sort of SMIC since I don't like the look of the 91 with a FMIC. Ill be updating with details and ideas so if you have any input that would be great. This is my first performance build but I feel confident that I can do what I need to do, what I don't have is years of knowledge and experience with these cars as many other members do. Thanks for any help
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Old 11-25-2012, 09:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

If you want to keep sidemounts the easiest is DSM converted sidemounts, double the size and fit without any problems.


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Old 11-25-2012, 04:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

especially with surgetastic phantoms I would stick with sidemounts.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

Ok the current plan (eventually) is to convert to running e85, hopefully be able to run 91 and e85 if aem comes out with their firmware update. Plan to run a series 2 with wideband. For the time being stick with stock refreshed heads but im replaceing everything while the engines out (all new gaskets, water pump, oil pump, all seals and 60k). Eventually upgrade the sidemounts and install hard intake piping. I was hoping to be able to push just over 20 psi with the phantoms and I was looking at having them rebuilt by MTC. All of this is preliminary right now, just putting my plan out there to see if anyone has input/suggestions.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

Currently have the engine out and I am accumulating parts for the rebuild, the current plan is to pick up some H-beams from mcandevr4 and grab a set of Pampena's Ross pistons. The pistons seem to come strongly reccomended and everyone I have talked to about the rods has had no issues. Already picked up a forged crank (still had factory cast when the bearing spun) and am going to micropolish it before assembly.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

Thoughts on rebuilding the phantoms? I havent seen any real #'s on them and I am curious to test them since I already have them. Things to look out for? What are your thoughts about trying to switch to e85 and get a base tune to do break in? Other idea was to remain stock to break motor in. Only problem is that I have an old school HKS VPC to run speed density and I didnt get the stock MAF when I bought it. Not sure how well I can get it to run using just that. Thoughts?
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

no one that I have ever heard of had phantoms run for any period of time. I'd put them on ebay and get the most you can from them.

pickup a stock maf and stock injectors and break your motor in with that.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

Yea we installed and tuned a few sets of phantoms back in the day when I worked at altered atmosphere. Phantoms were poorly designed and not properly tested. The result was that surge all the time which honestly I don't think it ever hurt anything, just sounded funny and if you can pretty much learn to manipulate the pedal a little you can drive around the surging. We did push 2 or 3 built cars and they did great at low boost. Very quick spool up and from one that I remember I think it was around 450whp at 16psi. But shortly after that they hit a wall. I can't remember what we got with race gas. I think it was over 500 but again much over 20 psi they did nothing.
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

Forest Gump : What do you mean by "Surgetastic"? Im not sure what you are talking about but I am intersted in knowing. All I could find for surging was compressor surge which seems to be a bov issue and not specific to a type of turbo.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 91 Rebuild w/ Phantoms

yes I am referring to compressor surge. Some turbo combinations are far more likely to surge.
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