13G vs. 13C Turbos - Page 3 - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

Kibwe Walker · 04-23-2008, 12:17 PM

Scanned through that thread again and it turns out Fastoldguy's setup isn't exactly stock heads and cams. He has 1mm oversized valves, 8.5:1 pistons, and clipped 13g's and it was 410 AWHP and 429 lb/ft of torque.

bjmsam · 04-23-2008, 12:22 PM

I'm asking for "back-to-back quarter mile trap speeds for 13G and 13T cars with similar mods running 17 psi" because dyno numbers and elapsed times are too unreliable for comparison.

BTW, last time I asked him, Lane didn't know whether he had TD04 hybrid 13Gs or TD04L factory 13Gs.

Kibwe Walker · 04-23-2008, 12:45 PM

Unless there is something like the official post your times up from the NG you won't see anything like that.

From that thread whatever he has they are clipped though, and he has oversized valves with some port work to get that 410 AWHP running 20 psi.

lawdogg · 04-23-2008, 12:57 PM

bjmsam, both the physical size of the compressor wheels and the empirically defined compressor maps will show you that 13T's are very similar to 15G's and likewise different from 13G's.

bjmsam · 04-23-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogg

bjmsam, both the physical size of the compressor wheels and the empirically defined compressor maps will show you that 13T's are very similar to 15G's and likewise different from 13G's.

Perhaps you missed this post. The three turbos you mention have the same turbine and have compressors that are efficient at flows demanded by most engines redlining at 17 psi.

lawdogg · 04-23-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjmsam

Perhaps you missed this post. The three turbos you mention have the same turbine and have compressors that are efficient at flows demanded by most engines redlining at 17 psi.

I apologize, perhaps I am missing the point you are making here. Yes they are the same turbine, yes they are the same housing, yes they are different compressor wheels, no the compressor housings are not the same. The 13g will flow less efficiently at 17psi to redline than a 15g or 13t regardless of modifications to the engine. I guess you lost me somewhere?

bjmsam · 04-23-2008, 01:36 PM

My point is that such marginal differences in density up to 17 psi (~350 cfm per turbo) should not have a significant impact on performance. Also, consider where on these curves most of the time is spent while driving, or even racing; it's interesting to note that up to and including the flow my engine demands at peak horsepower (~300 cfm per turbo at ~6000 RPM), 13Gs are marginally more efficient than 15Gs!

lawdogg · 04-23-2008, 01:41 PM

Ah, yes! I have not ran the numbers through myself but that's very believable. As you increase the PR from 17psi, I would expect the 13g efficiency to fall off very quickly though, where the 15g / 13t is still well in stride.

I thought to mention, did you see the recent thread where 400awhp was achieved with 13T's - at only 14psi?!

bjmsam · 04-23-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogg

As you increase the PR from 17psi, I would expect the 13g efficiency to fall off very quickly though, where the 15g / 13t is still well in stride.

Sure, beyond 17 psi (i.e.- race gas) is another matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdogg

did you see the recent thread where 400awhp was achieved with 13T's - at only 14psi?!

Yes, but I want to see trap speeds.

lawdogg · 04-23-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjmsam

Yes, but I want to see trap speeds.

You and me both.

Can you use your method of generating those compressor map comparisons to lay a 15G, 13T, and 13G map down on the same chart?

Here is a 13T compressor map: http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e1...13TCompMap.jpg

04-23-2008, 12:17 PM	#21 (permalink)
Kibwe Walker Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville Drives: 93 RT/tt Trader Rating: (2)	Re: 13G vs. 13C Turbos Scanned through that thread again and it turns out Fastoldguy's setup isn't exactly stock heads and cams. He has 1mm oversized valves, 8.5:1 pistons, and clipped 13g's and it was 410 AWHP and 429 lb/ft of torque. __________________ His - Red 93 RT/tt Mods: Hallman's MBC @ 16 psi, turbo XS type H BOV, stillen dp, custom exhaust, Spec stage 2 clutch, RPS FW, 3sx lightweight crank pulley, BCP7RES-11 @ .030 gap, autometer gauges, slightly gutted mas, dsm SMIC's, ACPT 1 piece CFDS, Tein S springs, pte 580 inj's, safc neo/SITC, 13t's, hotwired walbro, maximal performance solid motor mounts, DR plenum spacer. Hers - BPU Green 94 vr4

04-23-2008, 12:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
bjmsam Yank in Yorkshire Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: United Kingdom Drives: 94 Stealth TwinTurbo Trader Rating: (11)	Re: 13G vs. 13C Turbos I'm asking for "back-to-back quarter mile trap speeds for 13G and 13T cars with similar mods running 17 psi" because dyno numbers and elapsed times are too unreliable for comparison. BTW, last time I asked him, Lane didn't know whether he had TD04 hybrid 13Gs or TD04L factory 13Gs. __________________ Jim Matthews - Yorkshire, England, UK Team3S, 3SI #30, GTOUK #155 http://www.the-matthews.com/stealth.html Jet Black '94 Dodge Stealth R/T Twin-Turbo AWD AWS 6-spd Active Suspension Damping, ~~Active Exhaust Delete~~, 5300K HIDs Ek2MFG dual-flex downpipe, Zorstec custom SS cat-back dual A'PEXi Super AVC-R Mk-I, MHI TD04L-13Gs, K&N FIPK, IPS SS Y-pipe A'PEXi Super AFC 5-knob, 450cc Black Tops, MirageCorp Logger Mobil 1 & Redline fluids, Hotwired Denso 1020 Pump, IPO/SX AFPR SCE 332x32/322x28 cryoed StopTechs, Wilwood proportioning valves Winter: stock alloys 17x8.5-46, Hankook Icebear W300 235/45VR17 Summer: Enkei RPM2 17x9-40, Yokohama AVS ES100 245/45ZR17 Track: Enkei RPM2 17x9-40, Yokohama A-032R Hcomp 275/40R17 My reliable daily driver since Feb 1997!

04-23-2008, 12:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
Kibwe Walker Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nashville Drives: 93 RT/tt Trader Rating: (2)	Re: 13G vs. 13C Turbos Unless there is something like the official post your times up from the NG you won't see anything like that. From that thread whatever he has they are clipped though, and he has oversized valves with some port work to get that 410 AWHP running 20 psi.

04-23-2008, 01:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
bjmsam Yank in Yorkshire Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: United Kingdom Drives: 94 Stealth TwinTurbo Trader Rating: (11)	Re: 13G vs. 13C Turbos My point is that such marginal differences in density up to 17 psi (~350 cfm per turbo) should not have a significant impact on performance. Also, consider where on these curves most of the time is spent while driving, or even racing; it's interesting to note that up to and including the flow my engine demands at peak horsepower (~300 cfm per turbo at ~6000 RPM), 13Gs are marginally more efficient than 15Gs! Last edited by bjmsam : 04-23-2008 at 01:53 PM. Reason: added note about efficiency up to peak power

04-23-2008, 01:41 PM	#28 (permalink)
lawdogg Here for the tuna. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Williamsport, PA Drives: The Speed Limit Trader Rating: (61)	Re: 13G vs. 13C Turbos Ah, yes! I have not ran the numbers through myself but that's very believable. As you increase the PR from 17psi, I would expect the 13g efficiency to fall off very quickly though, where the 15g / 13t is still well in stride. I thought to mention, did you see the recent thread where 400awhp was achieved with 13T's - at only 14psi?!

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